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General sports discussion => Other sports => Topic started by: Levis43 on August 14, 2013, 01:33:23 PM

Title: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Levis43 on August 14, 2013, 01:33:23 PM
Who is the best player to ever play in the NBA who isn't Jordan. I think Lebron will be the best player ever when he retires.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Holz on August 14, 2013, 01:36:25 PM
this is very tough as its hard to argue lebron. He is just too young and really its only half way through his career. I couldnt vote him even though he is on pace to be in this discussion or maybee even the GOAT discussion.

based on that its a easy vote though.

Magic Johnson.

most important player of all time, much like Lebron could play any role really. Basically all the attributes of a top big man while playing in the role of a guard, despite somehow not only seeminly not having ball handling, speed, footwork issues etc.. normally associated with big men he actually was better than all the 6 footers.

Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: kingkingston on August 14, 2013, 03:29:25 PM
Wilt
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2013, 03:37:01 PM
Its gotta be Bill Russell. The main with more rings than fingers.

(http://www.myjewelrybox.com/media/content/Image/Article%20Images/bill%20russell.jpg)
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: BratPack on August 14, 2013, 04:32:09 PM
Earvin "Magic" Johnson and it's not even close
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2013, 04:34:54 PM
May be underrating Larry Bird here... The guy won 3 MVP's in a row during a dominant era of basketball - if only he wasn't cut down by injuries.

Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem. Just take your pick really, they are all legends :P
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Holz on August 14, 2013, 04:38:19 PM
May be underrating Larry Bird here... The guy won 3 MVP's in a row during a dominant era of basketball - if only he wasn't cut down by injuries.

Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem. Just take your pick really, they are all legends :P

he is in the spot for 3rd.

Jordan >> Magic >>>>> Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem >>>>> Shaq etc.....

lebron TBD
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2013, 04:40:35 PM
Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem.
I thought the only fair way to seperate these guys is rings, hence Russell is no.2

I really don't think Magic is that far ahead of Bird at all! Bird was better than Magic for a large chunk of their careers until back injuries got Bird.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 14, 2013, 05:00:16 PM
Shaqs pretty close to it. But its prob Magic. Jordan>Magic>Shaq>Kareem>Lebron
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Master Q on August 14, 2013, 05:03:28 PM
Shaqs pretty close to it. But its prob Magic. Jordan>Magic>Shaq>Kareem>Lebron
Shaq is definitely not the third best of all time lol  :P
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
Shaq is a great but not top 3 all-time...
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 14, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
He is pretty close to it. No one dominated like Shaq did for those 3 years. At 7ft, the guy is an absolute beast. Its a lot closer than you think.

For instance, alot of people have Kareem higher than Shaq.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=onealsh01&y1=2007&p2=abdulka01&y2=1984

I personally have Shaq higher, but Kareem higher isnt far fetched at all. Shaq has better ORB, TS, PER, BLK, USG and less TOV. Kareem has better win shares, because he won more than Shaq, but Shaq still won a shower tonne. Carrying 2 teams to 4 rings total.

He has a very good case to be in the top 5.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: kingkingston on August 14, 2013, 05:34:46 PM
May be underrating Larry Bird here... The guy won 3 MVP's in a row during a dominant era of basketball - if only he wasn't cut down by injuries.

Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem. Just take your pick really, they are all legends :P
bird was awesome
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Holz on August 14, 2013, 05:39:51 PM
He is pretty close to it. No one dominated like Shaq did for those 3 years. At 7ft, the guy is an absolute beast. Its a lot closer than you think.

For instance, alot of people have Kareem higher than Shaq.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=onealsh01&y1=2007&p2=abdulka01&y2=1984

I personally have Shaq higher, but Kareem higher isnt far fetched at all. Shaq has better ORB, TS, PER, BLK, USG and less TOV. Kareem has better win shares, because he won more than Shaq, but Shaq still won a shower tonne. Carrying 2 teams to 4 rings total.

He has a very good case to be in the top 5.

peak shaq is perhaps the most dominant player of all time. Kareem was the best big man for a long long time. thats why I put him higer.

Peak Sahq v Peak Kareem i probably lean towards Shaq
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: kingkingston on August 14, 2013, 05:44:33 PM
He is pretty close to it. No one dominated like Shaq did for those 3 years. At 7ft, the guy is an absolute beast. Its a lot closer than you think.

For instance, alot of people have Kareem higher than Shaq.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=onealsh01&y1=2007&p2=abdulka01&y2=1984

I personally have Shaq higher, but Kareem higher isnt far fetched at all. Shaq has better ORB, TS, PER, BLK, USG and less TOV. Kareem has better win shares, because he won more than Shaq, but Shaq still won a shower tonne. Carrying 2 teams to 4 rings total.

He has a very good case to be in the top 5.

peak shaq is perhaps the most dominant player of all time. Kareem was the best big man for a long long time. thats why I put him higer.

Peak Sahq v Peak Kareem i probably lean towards Shaq
don't forget Hakeem Olajuwon, he use to school Shaq something crazy
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2013, 06:09:53 PM
Earvin "Magic" Johnson and it's not even close
You're just sayin' that because it's his 54th birthday today :P
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 14, 2013, 06:21:07 PM
Was just looking at some stats and some other opinions, and actually, I don't think Magic is number 2. I mean, his numbers aren't even that good. He was just extremely elite for like 6 years straight.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
Was just looking at some stats and some other opinions, and actually, I don't think Magic is number 2. I mean, his numbers aren't even that good. He was just extremely elite for like 6 years straight.
Bird was a much better player without a doubt imo. Just, Magic has more accolades - probably due to playing with Kareem and Big Game James!
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 14, 2013, 06:35:44 PM
The more I look it at, the more I like Shaq @ number 2.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Master Q on August 14, 2013, 06:50:16 PM
The more I look it at, the more I like Shaq @ number 2.
I rate higher LBJ higher than Shaq...
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 14, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
Thats not as bad as Kobe>Shaq.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: valkorum on August 15, 2013, 09:53:49 AM
Wilt

Cant believe you are the only one to say Wilt Chamberlain.  Jordon, Wilt, Russell is my top 3



If you are going by championships then don't forget about Sam Jones (who is he, I hear you say).  He is the guy who played as G/F in 10 championships alongside Bill Russell.  That team stayed together for so long and so many championships

Bill Russell - 11 (13 Seasons)
Sam Jones - 10 (12 Seasons)
Tom Heinsohn - 8 (9 Seasons)
K. C. Jones 8 (9 Seasons)

Just to name a few
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Holz on August 15, 2013, 10:08:18 AM
Wilt

Cant believe you are the only one to say Wilt Chamberlain.  Jordon, Wilt, Russell is my top 3



If you are going by championships then don't forget about Sam Jones (who is he, I hear you say).  He is the guy who played as G/F in 10 championships alongside Bill Russell.  That team stayed together for so long and so many championships

Bill Russell - 11 (13 Seasons)
Sam Jones - 10 (12 Seasons)
Tom Heinsohn - 8 (9 Seasons)
K. C. Jones 8 (9 Seasons)

Just to name a few

Wilt is a hard one to rate, I always put him down on my list because really he was just phyically bigger than everyone else. Put him in the 90s and even give him the modern training methods and I dont see him being anywhere near as dominant. Jordan, Magic etc... however could play in any era.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Levis43 on August 15, 2013, 12:27:50 PM
Tim Duncan always gets over looked. He not the best but might be near top 5.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: kingkingston on August 15, 2013, 12:45:00 PM
Wilt

Cant believe you are the only one to say Wilt Chamberlain.  Jordon, Wilt, Russell is my top 3



If you are going by championships then don't forget about Sam Jones (who is he, I hear you say).  He is the guy who played as G/F in 10 championships alongside Bill Russell.  That team stayed together for so long and so many championships

Bill Russell - 11 (13 Seasons)
Sam Jones - 10 (12 Seasons)
Tom Heinsohn - 8 (9 Seasons)
K. C. Jones 8 (9 Seasons)

Just to name a few

Wilt is a hard one to rate, I always put him down on my list because really he was just phyically bigger than everyone else. Put him in the 90s and even give him the modern training methods and I dont see him being anywhere near as dominant. Jordan, Magic etc... however could play in any era.
at 7-2 with the lack of great centres in this era, he would be almost unstoppable, in fact he could play in any era and be effective
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 15, 2013, 04:07:32 PM
Not to mention no 3pt and 3 seconds. Jusr destroyed the era. People look at 2nd hand Championships too much.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 15, 2013, 04:51:43 PM
Tim Duncan always gets over looked. He not the best but might be near top 5.
If he made that layup and Spurs won the title then yes I would agree, but for now he aint top 5 imo.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: kingkingston on August 15, 2013, 05:13:49 PM
Tim Duncan always gets over looked. He not the best but might be near top 5.
If he made that layup and Spurs won the title then yes I would agree, but for now he aint top 5 imo.
that layup wouldn't change anything, he had won 4 titles from 4 NBA Finals in his peak, what he does now later in his career is just a bonus
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 15, 2013, 05:26:32 PM
Timmy D is pretty elite imo. For me, he is like 6/7.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Cicjose on August 15, 2013, 08:29:40 PM
Robinson > Duncan
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 15, 2013, 08:30:44 PM
Robinson > Duncan
no.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: My Chumps on August 15, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
Robinson > Duncan
no.
Mirin hard Cic. Hard.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 15, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
Robinson is better than Duncan.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 15, 2013, 08:46:27 PM
However, he did choke in the playoffs. I'd still take Robinson over Duncan though.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: My Chumps on August 15, 2013, 08:50:52 PM
Robinson sucked in the play-offs. Really. Dude was like a top 5 regular season player, was a better defender than TD, but his record is tarnished by his inability to perform at the same level in the plays.

03' Duncan is superior.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 15, 2013, 08:58:39 PM
So you say this...
Timmy D is pretty elite imo. For me, he is like 6/7.

And then this...
Robinson is better than Duncan.



Surely you dont have The Admiral in your top 6'ish of all time?
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 15, 2013, 09:08:58 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=robinda01&y1=1995&p2=duncati01&y2=2003

Robinson's 95 (6th season), Duncans 03 (6th season)


Play offs, Duncan went into beast mode. Single season, Robinson will always be the better player
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 15, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
I have him around the same as Duncan.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Levis43 on August 16, 2013, 02:48:38 PM
Jordan never would of won as many rings without Pippen.

Therefore if Jordan never had Pippen we would not consider Jordan to be the best of all time.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: My Chumps on August 16, 2013, 03:04:39 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=robinda01&y1=1995&p2=duncati01&y2=2003

Robinson's 95 (6th season), Duncans 03 (6th season)


Play offs, Duncan went into beast mode. Single season, Robinson will always be the better player

28.4 playoff PER compared to Robinson's 22.6. Damn man.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 16, 2013, 03:22:24 PM
Jordan never would of won as many rings without Pippen.

Therefore if Jordan never had Pippen we would not consider Jordan to be the best of all time.
Pippen isnt top 50 all-time, MJ made him what he was... Lebron needed Dwyane Wade, Bosh Spice and one of the greatest shooters ever, Ray Allen just to get a ring.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: RiOtChEsS on August 17, 2013, 10:16:43 AM
Jordan never would of won as many rings without Pippen.

Therefore if Jordan never had Pippen we would not consider Jordan to be the best of all time.
Pippen isnt top 50 all-time, MJ made him what he was... Lebron needed Dwyane Wade, Bosh Spice and one of the greatest shooters ever, Ray Allen just to get a ring.

Jordan would have still won 6 rings with Tony Ronaldson as his side kick :P
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: tbagrocks on August 22, 2013, 04:09:11 PM
Robinson over Duncan :o Please!

Not the second best but where is the Kobe love?

Barkley deserves a mention! Abdul Jabbar was a legend, James pretty much is second, Magic right up there Bird too

But surely Chamberlain and Russell top 5? Wilt probably gets my vote! in five years probably James will be king!
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Holz on August 22, 2013, 04:17:39 PM
Robinson over Duncan :o Please!

Not the second best but where is the Kobe love?

Barkley deserves a mention! Abdul Jabbar was a legend, James pretty much is second, Magic right up there Bird too

But surely Chamberlain and Russell top 5? Wilt probably gets my vote! in five years probably James will be king!

if this was Best NBA players to ever live who aren't Jordan, Olajuwon, Russel, Shaq, Bird, Kareem, Duncan, Magic, Wilt, Lebron I would start thinking about him.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 22, 2013, 06:04:25 PM
because lol Kobe.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 22, 2013, 07:19:17 PM
The more I research about it, the more I think Bird > Magic.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Andrew3737 on August 23, 2013, 12:07:00 AM
Bird beasted it for 12 years straight. I think its pretty close. Bird never had a historically elite player next to him, while Magic had Kareem. Sooo, I think Bird edges it just, but you can't go wrong with Magic.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: Jay on August 23, 2013, 03:51:32 PM
Bird beasted it for 12 years straight. I think its pretty close. Bird never had a historically elite player next to him, while Magic had Kareem. Sooo, I think Bird edges it just, but you can't go wrong with Magic.
In their prime Bird was the better player. If Bird didn't go down with back injuries his career would be more decorated too.
Title: Re: Best NBA player to ever live who ISN'T Jordan
Post by: RiOtChEsS on August 24, 2013, 10:22:53 AM
Bird beasted it for 12 years straight. I think its pretty close. Bird never had a historically elite player next to him, while Magic had Kareem. Sooo, I think Bird edges it just, but you can't go wrong with Magic.
In their prime Bird was the better player. If Bird didn't go down with back injuries his career would be more decorated too.
Bird could do anything, just wasnt as aesthetically pleasing as Magic, Bird's jump shot was money and the kicker that makes him better imo, Magic's jump shooting wasnt elite but it didnt have to be with his squads