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Author Topic: Carlisle wants out  (Read 4883 times)
Pkbaldy
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2015, 02:39:15 PM »

I reckon we will get pick 5 ;) and i think thats what he is worth. Im probably bias though :P Might be a second rounder added to him, but i dont see us wanting next years draft picks since we are coming off two years with no draft picks. Think we need this years drafts :P

Bains has already told Dodoro to get flowered about Pick 5. So yeah I don't see it happening. We are pushing for finals ASAP, and having that extra year in a 1st rounder could be the difference between winning the granny or losing it.

Seb Ross would not be a bad pick up for you guys, I was pretty pissed at first to see he was mentioned as a trade... But being a fan of him ( I see him as a late bloomer like Watson) i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
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Southstorm
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2015, 03:00:24 PM »

Well won't be pick 5. I'll tell you that now.

Not at any stage have I seen someone mention Gilbert or Lee as a trade.

The going trade at the moment seems to be; 2nd Rounder + Seb Ross (I've got my own thoughts as it could be Nathan Wright in his place) for Jake Carlisle.

Other option I see is 1st Rounder (2016) + 4th Rounder (2016) for Carlisle + 3rd Rounder (2015/2016)
Good, stay off facebook then. You see all sorts of lowball offers.

2nd Rounder + Seb Ross or Nathan Wright is a bullshower offer. Sorry, but neither of them are good enough to be anything more than fringe best 22 at Essendon and a 2nd round pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3rd rounder in last years draft. Port gave us a first rounder and a second rounder for Ryder, so why would we take that? There's no way Essendon would or should agree to that offer. Horrible deal for us.

A straight swap for Carlisle and a 1st rounder in 2016 is more than fair. I don't see why we need to sweeten the deal. 

i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
The same thing is going to happen to him at Essendon so why do you think we want him for such a high price?
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Pkbaldy
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2015, 03:11:18 PM »

Well won't be pick 5. I'll tell you that now.

Not at any stage have I seen someone mention Gilbert or Lee as a trade.

The going trade at the moment seems to be; 2nd Rounder + Seb Ross (I've got my own thoughts as it could be Nathan Wright in his place) for Jake Carlisle.

Other option I see is 1st Rounder (2016) + 4th Rounder (2016) for Carlisle + 3rd Rounder (2015/2016)
Good, stay off facebook then. You see all sorts of lowball offers.

2nd Rounder + Seb Ross or Nathan Wright is a bullshower offer. Sorry, but neither of them are good enough to be anything more than fringe best 22 at Essendon and a 2nd round pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3rd rounder in last years draft. Port gave us a first rounder and a second rounder for Ryder, so why would we take that? There's no way Essendon would or should agree to that offer. Horrible deal for us.

A straight swap for Carlisle and a 1st rounder in 2016 is more than fair. I don't see why we need to sweeten the deal. 

i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
The same thing is going to happen to him at Essendon so why do you think we want him for such a high price?

I was assuming you'd been on BigFooty... haha

Both are project players? So they were always going to take longer to make big impacts. Seb Ross will better than Gleeson, JMerrett, Kavanagh and going off this years effort Zaha.

Bains and Dodoro will work out some form of trade. But don't be disheartened if it is Seb Ross. He will be highly serviceable for you guys.
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Southstorm
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2015, 03:24:21 PM »

Well won't be pick 5. I'll tell you that now.

Not at any stage have I seen someone mention Gilbert or Lee as a trade.

The going trade at the moment seems to be; 2nd Rounder + Seb Ross (I've got my own thoughts as it could be Nathan Wright in his place) for Jake Carlisle.

Other option I see is 1st Rounder (2016) + 4th Rounder (2016) for Carlisle + 3rd Rounder (2015/2016)
Good, stay off facebook then. You see all sorts of lowball offers.

2nd Rounder + Seb Ross or Nathan Wright is a bullshower offer. Sorry, but neither of them are good enough to be anything more than fringe best 22 at Essendon and a 2nd round pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3rd rounder in last years draft. Port gave us a first rounder and a second rounder for Ryder, so why would we take that? There's no way Essendon would or should agree to that offer. Horrible deal for us.

A straight swap for Carlisle and a 1st rounder in 2016 is more than fair. I don't see why we need to sweeten the deal. 

i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
The same thing is going to happen to him at Essendon so why do you think we want him for such a high price?

I was assuming you'd been on BigFooty... haha

Both are project players? So they were always going to take longer to make big impacts. Seb Ross will better than Gleeson, JMerrett, Kavanagh and going off this years effort Zaha.

Bains and Dodoro will work out some form of trade. But don't be disheartened if it is Seb Ross. He will be highly serviceable for you guys.
I'll be disheartened if it is Seb Ross because he's not what we want and he's not what Carlisle is worth. If this was a trade involving Tayte Pears or somebody, Seb Ross would be a great pick up in return. But Carlisle is easily one of our best players and is arguably one of the best defenders in the league. He'll go to St. Kilda and immediately make an impact. We want to be adequately compensated for losing a very important player.

Dodoro has said as soon as Carlisle announced he wanted out that we'd be seeking a star player or a first round pick as compensation. That's not a 2nd round pick and Seb Ross and I can't imagine us going back on a position which we've made extremely clear. If you want to get this deal done, you're going to have to give up one of your available first round picks.
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Pkbaldy
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2015, 03:28:51 PM »

Well won't be pick 5. I'll tell you that now.

Not at any stage have I seen someone mention Gilbert or Lee as a trade.

The going trade at the moment seems to be; 2nd Rounder + Seb Ross (I've got my own thoughts as it could be Nathan Wright in his place) for Jake Carlisle.

Other option I see is 1st Rounder (2016) + 4th Rounder (2016) for Carlisle + 3rd Rounder (2015/2016)
Good, stay off facebook then. You see all sorts of lowball offers.

2nd Rounder + Seb Ross or Nathan Wright is a bullshower offer. Sorry, but neither of them are good enough to be anything more than fringe best 22 at Essendon and a 2nd round pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3rd rounder in last years draft. Port gave us a first rounder and a second rounder for Ryder, so why would we take that? There's no way Essendon would or should agree to that offer. Horrible deal for us.

A straight swap for Carlisle and a 1st rounder in 2016 is more than fair. I don't see why we need to sweeten the deal. 

i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
The same thing is going to happen to him at Essendon so why do you think we want him for such a high price?

I was assuming you'd been on BigFooty... haha

Both are project players? So they were always going to take longer to make big impacts. Seb Ross will better than Gleeson, JMerrett, Kavanagh and going off this years effort Zaha.

Bains and Dodoro will work out some form of trade. But don't be disheartened if it is Seb Ross. He will be highly serviceable for you guys.
I'll be disheartened if it is Seb Ross because he's not what we want and he's not what Carlisle is worth. If this was a trade involving Tayte Pears or somebody, Seb Ross would be a great pick up in return. But Carlisle is easily one of our best players and is arguably one of the best defenders in the league. He'll go to St. Kilda and immediately make an impact. We want to be adequately compensated for losing a very important player.

Dodoro has said as soon as Carlisle announced he wanted out that we'd be seeking a star player or a first round pick as compensation. That's not a 2nd round pick and Seb Ross and I can't imagine us going back on a position which we've made extremely clear. If you want to get this deal done, you're going to have to give up one of your available first round picks.

Well if it is a 1st rounder it'll be the 2016 one.
 
But you can't say that he is one of the best defenders in the league. There's only 3 defenders in the league that would be worth Pick 5 or better ( Rance, D.Talia and Hurley). And can't really be one of your best players... He hasn't polled in the top 10 of your BnF for the past 2 years... If it were Hurley wanting out i'd be throwing Pick 5 and Seb Ross for him. I know Carlisle has plenty of potential... But Saints also have to be weary of him.
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Pkbaldy
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Crazy Diamond Time

« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2015, 03:31:14 PM »

Let's just say the trade will be very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd team was involved in this.
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iZander
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2015, 03:43:04 PM »

I know everyone has said saints have been firm with saying no to pick 5, but i saw an interview and he said something like " pick 5 isn't available at this stage" which to me doesn't sound very convincing at all. And honestly, you won't get a better key defender with pick 5 and if you do you'll have to wait like 4 years for him to develop.
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Southstorm
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2015, 03:44:42 PM »

Well won't be pick 5. I'll tell you that now.

Not at any stage have I seen someone mention Gilbert or Lee as a trade.

The going trade at the moment seems to be; 2nd Rounder + Seb Ross (I've got my own thoughts as it could be Nathan Wright in his place) for Jake Carlisle.

Other option I see is 1st Rounder (2016) + 4th Rounder (2016) for Carlisle + 3rd Rounder (2015/2016)
Good, stay off facebook then. You see all sorts of lowball offers.

2nd Rounder + Seb Ross or Nathan Wright is a bullshower offer. Sorry, but neither of them are good enough to be anything more than fringe best 22 at Essendon and a 2nd round pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3rd rounder in last years draft. Port gave us a first rounder and a second rounder for Ryder, so why would we take that? There's no way Essendon would or should agree to that offer. Horrible deal for us.

A straight swap for Carlisle and a 1st rounder in 2016 is more than fair. I don't see why we need to sweeten the deal. 

i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
The same thing is going to happen to him at Essendon so why do you think we want him for such a high price?

I was assuming you'd been on BigFooty... haha

Both are project players? So they were always going to take longer to make big impacts. Seb Ross will better than Gleeson, JMerrett, Kavanagh and going off this years effort Zaha.

Bains and Dodoro will work out some form of trade. But don't be disheartened if it is Seb Ross. He will be highly serviceable for you guys.
I'll be disheartened if it is Seb Ross because he's not what we want and he's not what Carlisle is worth. If this was a trade involving Tayte Pears or somebody, Seb Ross would be a great pick up in return. But Carlisle is easily one of our best players and is arguably one of the best defenders in the league. He'll go to St. Kilda and immediately make an impact. We want to be adequately compensated for losing a very important player.

Dodoro has said as soon as Carlisle announced he wanted out that we'd be seeking a star player or a first round pick as compensation. That's not a 2nd round pick and Seb Ross and I can't imagine us going back on a position which we've made extremely clear. If you want to get this deal done, you're going to have to give up one of your available first round picks.

Well if it is a 1st rounder it'll be the 2016 one.
 
But you can't say that he is one of the best defenders in the league. There's only 3 defenders in the league that would be worth Pick 5 or better ( Rance, D.Talia and Hurley). And can't really be one of your best players... He hasn't polled in the top 10 of your BnF for the past 2 years... If it were Hurley wanting out i'd be throwing Pick 5 and Seb Ross for him. I know Carlisle has plenty of potential... But Saints also have to be weary of him.
If he's not one of the best defenders in the league, or at least if he doesn't have the potential to be one of the best is the league, then why do the saints want to pay him $700k a year? This is what I don't get; people are saying he's not worth a first round pick because he's too risky or not actually that good, ye he still gets offered that amount of money. Obviously, even the saints think he's worth something.

The only reason that the saints are saying first round picks are off the table is because they think Essendon aren't prepared to lose him for nothing, but this is Dodoro you're dealing with. He's as crazy as I am, he'd be totally prepared to let Carlisle walk to Carlton to either prove a point or force the saints to offer something better in return. We did the same thing last year with Ryder, and it worked. And really, if all we're going to get is a second round pick and Seb Ross then we don't actually stand to lose that much.

In 2014, he struggled playing forward. Last year he struggled to play at all. In 2013 he had a better season than Talia and Hurley. You've really got no reason to worry about him if you're going to play him where he wants and play him in a team he wants to play for. I'd love for him to stay, but he isn't going to perform for us so we have to move him on. No different to Ryder.

I'd be happy with a 2016 first rounder. That gives us a chance to snare another star next year and hopefully give Woosha an easy rebuild.

Let's just say the trade will be very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd team was involved in this.
Well, apparently Baines already said no to a three way trade with Collingwood for Freeman. We might have been down for that too otherwise.
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Pkbaldy
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2015, 03:56:43 PM »

Well won't be pick 5. I'll tell you that now.

Not at any stage have I seen someone mention Gilbert or Lee as a trade.

The going trade at the moment seems to be; 2nd Rounder + Seb Ross (I've got my own thoughts as it could be Nathan Wright in his place) for Jake Carlisle.

Other option I see is 1st Rounder (2016) + 4th Rounder (2016) for Carlisle + 3rd Rounder (2015/2016)
Good, stay off facebook then. You see all sorts of lowball offers.

2nd Rounder + Seb Ross or Nathan Wright is a bullshower offer. Sorry, but neither of them are good enough to be anything more than fringe best 22 at Essendon and a 2nd round pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3rd rounder in last years draft. Port gave us a first rounder and a second rounder for Ryder, so why would we take that? There's no way Essendon would or should agree to that offer. Horrible deal for us.

A straight swap for Carlisle and a 1st rounder in 2016 is more than fair. I don't see why we need to sweeten the deal. 

i don't want to see him get pushed out of the team for the young 1st rounders we are going to pick up.
The same thing is going to happen to him at Essendon so why do you think we want him for such a high price?

I was assuming you'd been on BigFooty... haha

Both are project players? So they were always going to take longer to make big impacts. Seb Ross will better than Gleeson, JMerrett, Kavanagh and going off this years effort Zaha.

Bains and Dodoro will work out some form of trade. But don't be disheartened if it is Seb Ross. He will be highly serviceable for you guys.
I'll be disheartened if it is Seb Ross because he's not what we want and he's not what Carlisle is worth. If this was a trade involving Tayte Pears or somebody, Seb Ross would be a great pick up in return. But Carlisle is easily one of our best players and is arguably one of the best defenders in the league. He'll go to St. Kilda and immediately make an impact. We want to be adequately compensated for losing a very important player.

Dodoro has said as soon as Carlisle announced he wanted out that we'd be seeking a star player or a first round pick as compensation. That's not a 2nd round pick and Seb Ross and I can't imagine us going back on a position which we've made extremely clear. If you want to get this deal done, you're going to have to give up one of your available first round picks.

Well if it is a 1st rounder it'll be the 2016 one.
 
But you can't say that he is one of the best defenders in the league. There's only 3 defenders in the league that would be worth Pick 5 or better ( Rance, D.Talia and Hurley). And can't really be one of your best players... He hasn't polled in the top 10 of your BnF for the past 2 years... If it were Hurley wanting out i'd be throwing Pick 5 and Seb Ross for him. I know Carlisle has plenty of potential... But Saints also have to be weary of him.
If he's not one of the best defenders in the league, or at least if he doesn't have the potential to be one of the best is the league, then why do the saints want to pay him $700k a year? This is what I don't get; people are saying he's not worth a first round pick because he's too risky or not actually that good, ye he still gets offered that amount of money. Obviously, even the saints think he's worth something.

The only reason that the saints are saying first round picks are off the table is because they think Essendon aren't prepared to lose him for nothing, but this is Dodoro you're dealing with. He's as crazy as I am, he'd be totally prepared to let Carlisle walk to Carlton to either prove a point or force the saints to offer something better in return. We did the same thing last year with Ryder, and it worked. And really, if all we're going to get is a second round pick and Seb Ross then we don't actually stand to lose that much.

In 2014, he struggled playing forward. Last year he struggled to play at all. In 2013 he had a better season than Talia and Hurley. You've really got no reason to worry about him if you're going to play him where he wants and play him in a team he wants to play for. I'd love for him to stay, but he isn't going to perform for us so we have to move him on. No different to Ryder.

I'd be happy with a 2016 first rounder. That gives us a chance to snare another star next year and hopefully give Woosha an easy rebuild.

Let's just say the trade will be very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd team was involved in this.
Well, apparently Baines already said no to a three way trade with Collingwood for Freeman. We might have been down for that too otherwise.

That is exactly why I really didn't want him. I don't think he's worth that sort of money... Rather spend it next year on Hurley through RFA  ;)

Yeah my guess is Bains will try for;  2016 1st rounder + 3rd Rounder (2016) for Carlilse + 2nd Rounder (2016) (Which we then would use to get Freeman, if the trade isn't already completed) . And if Dodoro plays his cards right and argues well it'll just be a straight a swap, for the 1st rounder (2016) and Carlilse.
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Southstorm
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2015, 04:00:16 PM »


That is exactly why I really didn't want him. I don't think he's worth that sort of money... Rather spend it next year on Hurley through RFA  ;)

Yeah my guess is Bains will try for;  2016 1st rounder + 3rd Rounder (2016) for Carlilse + 2nd Rounder (2016) (Which we then would use to get Freeman, if the trade isn't already completed) . And if Dodoro plays his cards right and argues well it'll just be a straight a swap, for the 1st rounder (2016) and Carlilse.
I can dig that.

Heh. Yeah, Carlisle is a massive sook but he's won games for us playing back, and probably also won one playing forward as well. Definitely need him if you're going to play finals I think. As long as you keep him happy and don't give him too much to whinge about, he'll be a star for you guys. Sad to see him go but, depending what we get back, we're better off without him too I think.
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Pkbaldy
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2015, 04:06:10 PM »


That is exactly why I really didn't want him. I don't think he's worth that sort of money... Rather spend it next year on Hurley through RFA  ;)

Yeah my guess is Bains will try for;  2016 1st rounder + 3rd Rounder (2016) for Carlilse + 2nd Rounder (2016) (Which we then would use to get Freeman, if the trade isn't already completed) . And if Dodoro plays his cards right and argues well it'll just be a straight a swap, for the 1st rounder (2016) and Carlilse.
I can dig that.

Heh. Yeah, Carlisle is a massive sook but he's won games for us playing back, and probably also won one playing forward as well. Definitely need him if you're going to play finals I think. As long as you keep him happy and don't give him too much to whinge about, he'll be a star for you guys. Sad to see him go but, depending what we get back, we're better off without him too I think.

The fact he had a sook about the drive from Ascot Vale to Seaford could be a problem (You're getting like 3.5m over 5 years, buy another flowering house), makes me not super keen on him....

Plus I think you guys would be better off taking the punt on 2016 first rounder than Pick 5. You probably do need an extra key position player now that he's going, and the only one probably worth taking the punt around Pick 5 would be Curnow, who would be a forward, but I could see him being a complete flop. Carlisle for Curnow would be a massive loss to you guys. For all we know we could get heaps of injuries and finish 18th next year and you guys will have Pick 1... Then i'll be pissed off haha.

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iZander
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2015, 04:12:08 PM »


That is exactly why I really didn't want him. I don't think he's worth that sort of money... Rather spend it next year on Hurley through RFA  ;)

Yeah my guess is Bains will try for;  2016 1st rounder + 3rd Rounder (2016) for Carlilse + 2nd Rounder (2016) (Which we then would use to get Freeman, if the trade isn't already completed) . And if Dodoro plays his cards right and argues well it'll just be a straight a swap, for the 1st rounder (2016) and Carlilse.
I can dig that.

Heh. Yeah, Carlisle is a massive sook but he's won games for us playing back, and probably also won one playing forward as well. Definitely need him if you're going to play finals I think. As long as you keep him happy and don't give him too much to whinge about, he'll be a star for you guys. Sad to see him go but, depending what we get back, we're better off without him too I think.

The fact he had a sook about the drive from Ascot Vale to Seaford could be a problem (You're getting like 3.5m over 5 years, buy another flowering house), makes me not super keen on him....

Plus I think you guys would be better off taking the punt on 2016 first rounder than Pick 5. You probably do need an extra key position player now that he's going, and the only one probably worth taking the punt around Pick 5 would be Curnow, who would be a forward, but I could see him being a complete flop. Carlisle for Curnow would be a massive loss to you guys. For all we know we could get heaps of injuries and finish 18th next year and you guys will have Pick 1... Then i'll be pissed off haha.
No, we need picks this year, we just lost 2 years of picks, we need to inject some youth ;)
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Pkbaldy
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2015, 04:16:02 PM »


That is exactly why I really didn't want him. I don't think he's worth that sort of money... Rather spend it next year on Hurley through RFA  ;)

Yeah my guess is Bains will try for;  2016 1st rounder + 3rd Rounder (2016) for Carlilse + 2nd Rounder (2016) (Which we then would use to get Freeman, if the trade isn't already completed) . And if Dodoro plays his cards right and argues well it'll just be a straight a swap, for the 1st rounder (2016) and Carlilse.
I can dig that.

Heh. Yeah, Carlisle is a massive sook but he's won games for us playing back, and probably also won one playing forward as well. Definitely need him if you're going to play finals I think. As long as you keep him happy and don't give him too much to whinge about, he'll be a star for you guys. Sad to see him go but, depending what we get back, we're better off without him too I think.

The fact he had a sook about the drive from Ascot Vale to Seaford could be a problem (You're getting like 3.5m over 5 years, buy another flowering house), makes me not super keen on him....

Plus I think you guys would be better off taking the punt on 2016 first rounder than Pick 5. You probably do need an extra key position player now that he's going, and the only one probably worth taking the punt around Pick 5 would be Curnow, who would be a forward, but I could see him being a complete flop. Carlisle for Curnow would be a massive loss to you guys. For all we know we could get heaps of injuries and finish 18th next year and you guys will have Pick 1... Then i'll be pissed off haha.
No, we need picks this year, we just lost 2 years of picks, we need to inject some youth ;)
You got Langford and Carlton gifted you guys Laverde (And they gifted us Goddard! ) last year.
You will with Darcy Parish. Waiting an extra year isn't going to be damning for you guys. But for us it will...
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iZander
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2015, 04:18:06 PM »


That is exactly why I really didn't want him. I don't think he's worth that sort of money... Rather spend it next year on Hurley through RFA  ;)

Yeah my guess is Bains will try for;  2016 1st rounder + 3rd Rounder (2016) for Carlilse + 2nd Rounder (2016) (Which we then would use to get Freeman, if the trade isn't already completed) . And if Dodoro plays his cards right and argues well it'll just be a straight a swap, for the 1st rounder (2016) and Carlilse.
I can dig that.

Heh. Yeah, Carlisle is a massive sook but he's won games for us playing back, and probably also won one playing forward as well. Definitely need him if you're going to play finals I think. As long as you keep him happy and don't give him too much to whinge about, he'll be a star for you guys. Sad to see him go but, depending what we get back, we're better off without him too I think.

The fact he had a sook about the drive from Ascot Vale to Seaford could be a problem (You're getting like 3.5m over 5 years, buy another flowering house), makes me not super keen on him....

Plus I think you guys would be better off taking the punt on 2016 first rounder than Pick 5. You probably do need an extra key position player now that he's going, and the only one probably worth taking the punt around Pick 5 would be Curnow, who would be a forward, but I could see him being a complete flop. Carlisle for Curnow would be a massive loss to you guys. For all we know we could get heaps of injuries and finish 18th next year and you guys will have Pick 1... Then i'll be pissed off haha.
No, we need picks this year, we just lost 2 years of picks, we need to inject some youth ;)
You got Langford and Carlton gifted you guys Laverde (And they gifted us Goddard! ) last year.
You will with Darcy Parish. Waiting an extra year isn't going to be damning for you guys. But for us it will...
I agree, they did an exceptional job with the few picks they had, but still feel like this years pick would be a lot better :P And honestly don't feel N5 is an over pay anyway
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Southstorm
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2015, 04:19:02 PM »

Really hope we get Parish but I have a strong feeling that he'll be heading north....
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