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Author Topic: 2020 Change in rules to be voted on.  (Read 751 times)
Ringo
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« on: December 03, 2019, 05:05:54 PM »

This op will record all votes sent and results and will be reserved for that purpose.

Votes for 2021 year unless specified:

Vote 1a To apply for next year
Reduction in List Sizes
a) No Change 7 votes
b) Reduce List sizes 9 votes

Vote 1b (If reduced)
List Size
a) 47
b) 46 6 votes
c) 45 3 votes

Vote 2 To apply to this years Trade Period
Live trading of picks - Ability to trade picks up to day before National Draft
a) Yes Carried 12 votes
b) No 4 votes

Vote 3a  For next season
Increase value of goals
a) No Change 9 votes
b) Increase 7 votes

Vote 3b (if increased)
Goal Values
a) 7
b) 8
c) 9
Not required due to vote above

Vote 4 a For next season
Do we add rebound 50 to our stats?
a) Yes 9 votes
b) No 7 votes

Vote 4b If added
Points value for rebound 50
a) 28 votes
b) 3 1 vote
c) 4  0 votes

Vote 5  For tis season
Rising Star award for 2020 year
Current Rule
Rising Star Award will be presented to a Player under 21 years of age making his debut in the competition ,  Will be awarded to the player with the highest points average for season with a minimum of 5 games being played. A player who has has played 2 games or less in the previous season is eligible for this award providing the play a minimum of 5 games this year,

Proposed change
"- For a player to be eligible for a nomination for The Rising Star Award, a player must meet the criteria listed by the AFL for their Rising Star Award, which is currently as follows:

- To be eligible for the AFL Rising Star Award, each year's nominated players must be under the age of 21 at 1 January and have played no more than 10 AFL games to the start of that season.

- They must not have been suspended by the AFL or State League tribunals during the season (as with the Brownlow Medal, players found guilty of certain offences and fined or reprimanded by the Tribunal remain eligible to win the award)."

At the conclusion of the BXVs 15 round regular sseason, only the nominations of players who have played at least 5 games and have not been suspended since their nomination

 The Rising Star Award is voted on by all 16 current BXVs Coaches in preference order

In the case where there is no new players eligible to receive a nomination in a round no nomination recorded

In the case where there are multiple players tied for the most coaches' votes for the BXVs Rising Star, the award will be shared,

a) Keep as is 6 votes
b) Approve as amended10 votes

Vote 6 for 2020 year
MVP
a) Keep as is using UF Medai 8 votes
b) Manually do each week 8 votes
Tied vote 8 all. As both Administrators voted to keep as is so no change

Vote 7a For this season
Time on Ground
a) Keep at 20% 9 votes
b) Increase  7 votes
c) Decrease 0 votes

Vote 7b 
Time on Ground
a) 0%
b) 10%
c) 15%
d) 25%
e) 30%
Not required due to vote

Vote 8 - To apply to end of season draft
Mid Season Draft - Players drafted in the mid season draft should be placed in
a) National Draft 2 votes
b) Rookie Draft. 14 votes

Vote 9 for 2020 year
Do we continue North v South Challenge during byes?
a) yes 12 votes
b) no 4 votes
May not eventuate this year due to changes
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 05:36:03 PM by Ringo » Logged
GoLions
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 05:11:53 PM »

- reduce list size to 46
- live trading of picks / ability to trade picks up until day before nat draft starts
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Ringo
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2019, 05:12:44 PM »

Starting off with a couple of rules to be be discussed and voted on and feel free to comment.

1) Is 48 the ideal size or do we need to reduce back to 47 to align with AFL Lists or even less.

2) Thoughts on where the MSD SSP drafted players should go National Draft or remain in rookie draft.

3) It has been mentioned that key forwards do not get the recognition they deserve so thoughts on rising the goal value from 6 points to 9 points.

4) Similar for defenders do we add rebound 50s to the stats and give a value of 4 points.

Just something to consider to vote on prior to next season.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 05:18:42 PM by Ringo » Logged
kilbluff1985
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 05:12:47 PM »

- reduce list size to 46
- live trading of picks / ability to trade picks up until day before nat draft starts

agree with both
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SilverLion
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2019, 05:30:28 PM »

So a few things that I think are worth raising for next season. Warning: MASSIVE slabs of text follow :P.




Firstly, a couple of amendments to the following rules:

Priority Picks:

"3.4  Teams with less than 4 wins year 1 will have priority picks at end of Round 1 of National draft and if they also have less than 4 wins in year 2 then they will receive priority picks at start of National Draft. Tanking will not be tolerated and will result in forfeiture of Round 1 pick as well"

Needs to reworded to something to the effect of:

"3.4  Teams with less than 4 wins year 1 will have priority picks at end of Round 1 of National draft and if they also have less than 4 wins in year 2 then they will receive a priority pick immediately after their first national draft pick (prior to trading) instead of an end of first round pick. Tanking will not be tolerated and will result in forfeiture of Round 1 pick as well."

In addition, I'd like to put forward the suggestion that if a team wins a total of 6 games or less over 2 seasons they are also entitled to the first round priority pick instead of an end of first round pick. This would avoid situations such as the one we have seen with the Rams and Breakers this year. Furthermore I think we should scrap the ability of the admins to hand out priority picks that don't fit with these rules (if we implement my previous suggestion, I don't think there'd be a scenario where it would be required anyway).

I think the 6 game limit/less than 4 wins in each of 2 years should roll to each subsequent year as well. Just showing a couple of scenarios as an example (assuming the year previous to Year 1 the side won at least 7 games so nothings rolling over):

Year 1 - 4 wins, Year 2 - 2 Wins - Year 3 - 4 Wins - would result in no priority pick in the first year, a first round pick the second year, and a first round pick in the third year.

Year 1 - 1 win, Year 2 - 5 Wins, Year 3 - 3 Wins - would result in an end of first round pick in the first year, a first round pick in the second year, and an end of first round pick in the third year.

Year 1 - 0 Wins, Year 2 - 4 Wins, Year 3 - 3 Wins - would result in an end of first round pick in the first year, a first round pick in the second year, and an end of first round pick in the third year.






--






Rising Star:

"Rising Star Award will be presented to a Player under 21 years of age making his debut in the competition ,  Will be awarded to the player with the highest points average for season with a minimum of 5 games being played. A player who has has played 2 games or less in the previous season is eligible for this award providing the play a minimum of 5 games this year,"

Needs to be updated to something to the effect of (points in red I think we need further clarification/discussion on):

"- For a player to be eligible for a nomination for The Rising Star Award, a player must meet the criteria listed by the AFL for their Rising Star Award, which is currently as follows:

- To be eligible for the AFL Rising Star Award, each year's nominated players must be under the age of 21 at 1 January and have played no more than 10 AFL games to the start of that season.

- They must not have been suspended by the AFL or State League tribunals during the season (as with the Brownlow Medal, players found guilty of certain offences and fined or reprimanded by the Tribunal remain eligible to win the award)."

At the conclusion of the BXVs 15 round regular sseason, only the nominations of players who have played at least 5 games and have not been suspended since their nomination (as is the same for the AFL's eligibility <only suspensions up to BXVs Round 15 inclusive should count I think? if a player is suspended later than this and is ineligible for the AFL award it shouldn't impact ours as we will have already awarded it>) for their BXVs side are then listed to be voted for. The Rising Star Award is voted on by all 16 current BXVs Coaches (<insert voting format here>).

In the case where there is no new players eligible to receive a nomination in a round, <insert what we do for that here>.

In the case where there are multiple players tied for the most coaches' votes for the BXVs Rising Star, <insert what we do for that here>.





--





So one other thing I wanted to raise separate to the rule amendments is the scoring system we currently use and how it currently places a noticable disadvantage to true forwards. I bring this up as it is evident across the competition that the best forwards, understandably, are midfielders available as forwards. I'm not saying at all that this alone is a problem (all formats pretty much face this to some extent), as our scoring system is heavily weighted to benefit midfielders (and especially inside/contested midfielders), I just believe that as a result of this weighting it creates a gap between these mids available as forwards and true forwards that is larger than it should be, and one that is larger than the common counterpart formats.

I'll use the example of the top 10 average forwards across our comp compared to SC and DT (FWIW, I'm aware that most of them across all 3 formats probably won't be available as forwards next year - which in itself is part of the problem haha).


BXVs:

Travis Boak - 207.1
Patrick Dangerfield - 195.4
Josh Dunkley - 194.4
Tim Kelly - 180.4
Rowan Marshall - 172.9
David Mundy - 166.2
James Worpel - 165.8
Jack Billings - 160.2
Michael Walters - 157.6
Robbie Gray - 156.9

Average = 175.69
      SC:

Josh Dunkley - 114.1
Patrick Dangerfield - 114.0
Travis Boak - 112.7
Rowan Marshall 112.3
Tim Kelly 102.9
Michael Walters - 100.8
Caleb Daniel - 99.9
Scott Lycett - 99.1
Jack Billings - 98.2
Isaac Heeney - 93.9

Average = 104.79
      DT:

Josh Dunkley - 110.6
Travis Boak - 110.6
Patrick Dangerfield - 106.6
Rowan Marshall - 101.5
Jack Billings - 101.4
Tim Kelly - 98.6
Tom Lynch (ADE) - 95.6
Caleb Daniel - 94.5
Dustin Martin - 93.8
James Worpel - 92.8

Average = 100.6



Now on their own the lists stack up reasonably consistently with each other, with the list being dominated by midfielders across all 3 formats, however its the disparity between the top 10s down to the "true" forwards is where I think its more obvious where the issues are. Taking the top 6 in the Coleman medal as an example (as these are some of the better "true" forwards of the comp:

BXVs:

Jeremy Cameron - 129.6
Jack Darling - 110.3
Tom Hawkins - 109.8
Ben Brown - 108.1
Tom Lynch (RICH) - 93.4
Charlie Cameron - 99.5
      SC:

Jeremy Cameron - 93.0
Tom Hawkins - 86.2
Jack Darling - 80.8
Charlie Cameron - 77.8
Ben Brown - 76.9
Tom Lynch (RICH) - 66.1
      DT:

Jeremy Cameron - 87.5
Tom Hawkins - 71.1
Ben Brown - 69.8
Jack Darling - 69
Charlie Cameron - 66.1
Tom Lynch (RICH) - 58.9

It is clear that although the true forwards will pretty much always score less than midfielders (as is the nature of the majority of fantasy formats), the gap in our format is significantly more skewed than it should be. Isolating Jeremy Cameron as an example (who currently has a significantly higher average in both BXVs and DT than the others listed - likely due to a higher possession average); his average is 26% lower than the average of the top 10 in BXVs, compared to merely 11% in SC and 13% in DT. Using Jack Darling as another example, 37% lower in BXVs, 23% in SC and 31% DT. The difference, though less noticeable, still indicates that they are at a disadvantage more in BXVs than the counterpart formats.

Now I'm not saying to change anything drastic so these forwards are averaging as much as mids or anything, I just think the gap between them and the top forwards should be made to be at least a bit closer, in a similar fashion to other formats. One minor suggestion I thought of would be to increase the amount of points awarded from goals by a few points, for example an increase of a mere 2 points per goal would increase J Cameron's average by 6.35 points, Hawkins' by 4.9 points, Darling's by 5; and would only increase Dangerfield's by 2.1, Dunkley's by 0.9 and Boak's by 1 point.

TLDR; I think true forwards are disadvantaged too severely by our scoring format as it currently sits.





--





One last thing, will we be doing a mid-season draft and/or trade period next year? It was mentioned that we would re-assess it based on the AFL mid-year draft this year. :P


(Also sorry if I made any typos or maths errors haha, hopefully you guys get the gist of my post at least)
We've discussed this a bit since I posted it, think it's fair to say to ignore the additional suggestion for priority picks. Though I stand by the rest of my post.

A couple of other things that have been discussed as well:

- Make it mandatory to formally lodge teams in the team thread for finals. (Rather than just stating "As per UF" and the EVC and EMG order).

- Changes to the MVP - Could be made a manual count of a 3,2,1 system to the highest three scorers between both teams in every match, without weighting to the winning side. Would need a system for tiebreakers though.

- Should we do a MSD?
Reposting from the old thread.
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Ringo
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2019, 07:48:42 AM »

Posting here some ideas to keep draft moving and feel free to discuss here and come to resolution to vote 1.

My proposal is for Rd 1 of the draft allow the 24 hour rule to remain for time off line but for subsequent Rds and Rookie Draft time off line to 12hrs.  Also thinking of changing auto pick from best available to last available pick so there is possibly further incentive to check.

Another item for discussion is do we need a rookie draft and just have one draft. Has been raised but personally think we still need the rookie draft.   Discussion though maybe as to do we add MSD players to National draft?
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GoLions
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2019, 09:39:47 AM »

Posting here some ideas to keep draft moving and feel free to discuss here and come to resolution to vote 1.

My proposal is for Rd 1 of the draft allow the 24 hour rule to remain for time off line but for subsequent Rds and Rookie Draft time off line to 12hrs.  Also thinking of changing auto pick from best available to last available pick so there is possibly further incentive to check.

Another item for discussion is do we need a rookie draft and just have one draft. Has been raised but personally think we still need the rookie draft.   Discussion though maybe as to do we add MSD players to National draft?
12hrs is far too short. You lose 9ish instantly if it happens to get to your pick at night after you've gone to bed.

Autopick last available is way too harsh of a punishment. It's fine how it is.

Need the rookie draft.

Adding MSD to the nat could be an option.
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SilverLion
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2020, 11:43:36 PM »

Another thing, I'd like to suggest an increase TOG % for the injury emergency. I believe it's 20% currently, would like to see it upped to 25 or even 30%.

Or alternatively, allow it for a game ending injury regardless of TOG, but only if the emergency scores more (e.g. Player X is on the ground scores 150 and gets injured with 70% TOG, emergency Player Y scored 130: keep player X's score).

Happened a handful of times last year where a player got injured with around 21% TOG and people got stuck with their score.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:54:29 PM by SilverLion » Logged
Ringo
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2020, 08:53:34 AM »

Thoughts on this as we have not reviewed for a couple of years.

Think 25% is probably fair as it is 3/4 game game not played, 30% may be a little high in my opinion.
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GoLions
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Get around the Kate Upton Cobras!

« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2020, 09:08:08 AM »

Seeing as most players don't play 100% TOG, i like the 20% as it's effectively just first quarter injuries.
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SilverLion
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'17 SC Rank - 2827, '18 - 4108

« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2020, 10:58:02 AM »

Seeing as most players don't play 100% TOG, i like the 20% as it's effectively just first quarter injuries.
Whilst true I just feel theres been quite a few injuries between 20-25% that could be covered by this. No-one wants to be stuck with a guy who scored 40 off 22% TOG :P
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Ringo
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2020, 11:09:22 AM »

I have listed a number of rule changes that have been suggested for 2021 season.

Please feel free to suggest others or comment on existing.  As we currently have 8 will send out votes in the next couple of weeks giving time for more discussion or additions.
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'17 SC Rank - 2827, '18 - 4108

« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2020, 11:22:48 AM »

This op will record all votes sent and results and will be reserved for that purpose.

General discussion can take place though by adding to comment.

Votes for 2021:

Vote 1
Reduction in List Sizes
a) Keep at 48
b) Reduce to 47
c) Reduce to 46

Vote 2
Live trading of picks - Ability to trade picks up to day before National Draft
a) Yes
b) No


Vote 3
Increase value of goals
a) Keep at 6
b) Increase to 9

Vote 4
Do we add rebound 50 to our stats?
a) Yes
b) No

Vote 5
Rising Star award
Current Rule
Rising Star Award will be presented to a Player under 21 years of age making his debut in the competition ,  Will be awarded to the player with the highest points average for season with a minimum of 5 games being played. A player who has has played 2 games or less in the previous season is eligible for this award providing the play a minimum of 5 games this year,

Proposed change
"- For a player to be eligible for a nomination for The Rising Star Award, a player must meet the criteria listed by the AFL for their Rising Star Award, which is currently as follows:

- To be eligible for the AFL Rising Star Award, each year's nominated players must be under the age of 21 at 1 January and have played no more than 10 AFL games to the start of that season.

- They must not have been suspended by the AFL or State League tribunals during the season (as with the Brownlow Medal, players found guilty of certain offences and fined or reprimanded by the Tribunal remain eligible to win the award)."

At the conclusion of the BXVs 15 round regular sseason, only the nominations of players who have played at least 5 games and have not been suspended since their nomination

 The Rising Star Award is voted on by all 16 current BXVs Coaches in preference order

In the case where there is no new players eligible to receive a nomination in a round no nomination recorded

In the case where there are multiple players tied for the most coaches' votes for the BXVs Rising Star, the award will be shared,

a) Keep as is
b) Approve as amended

Vote 6
MVP
a) Keep as is using UF Medal
b) Manually do each week

Vote 7
Time on Ground
a) Keep as is 20%
b) Increase to 25%
c) Increase to 30%

Vote 8
Mid Season Draft - Players drafted in the mid season draft should be placed in
a) National Draft
b) Rookie Draft.

"At the conclusion of the BXVs 15 round regular sseason, only the nominations of players who have played at least 5 games and have not been suspended since their nomination"

Is that 5 AFL Games or 5 BXV Games?

Also should we seperate Votes 3, 4 and 7?

i.e.:

Vote 3a
Increase value of goals
a) Keep as is (6)
b) Increase

Vote 3b
If Increased:
a) Increase to 8
b) Increase to 9
or N/A



Vote 4a
Do we add rebound 50 to our stats?
a) Yes
b) No

Vote 4b
If Yes
a) Worth 2 points
b) Worth 4 points
or N/A



Vote 7a
Time on Ground for Injury Emergecy
a) Keep as is (20%)
b) Increase

Vote 7b
If Increased:
a) 25%
b) 30%
or N/A



And one last thing ;D, does this need to be voted on too?:

"Make it mandatory to formally lodge teams in the team thread for finals. (Rather than just stating "As per UF" and the EVC and EMG order)."
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 11:37:41 AM by SilverLion » Logged
Ringo
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2020, 12:29:51 PM »

Point taken on splitting votes 3,4 and 7. What do other think.  Happy to do it as I think not doing this last year may have resulted in some vote confusions.

Regarding Rising Star it is 5 British Games.

Comments on the last one 50/50 on this as if posting as per UF coaches are disadvantaged if a utility can replace a late out and have to take first named emergency which in UF is defence so there is a risk in doing this. Lodging in thread gives emergencies preference order,
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GoLions
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Get around the Kate Upton Cobras!

« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2020, 12:46:14 PM »

Question 1 should also be separated

Question 7 should also include decrease and remove

Re: Rising Star, we've used AFL eligible for a few years because that way we get all eligible from @Purple77
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