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Author Topic: AXVs: Official Discussion Thread  (Read 305161 times)
meow meow
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« Reply #5355 on: September 01, 2018, 12:27:43 PM »

So what's going on here? Why did I get headhunted to come in and fix things? What needs fixing?
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Rids
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Bootstudder
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« Reply #5356 on: September 01, 2018, 08:02:57 PM »

When I offered my services for admin, this was doing so in conjunction with the current admin if the league wanted. I am more than happy to give up some time to try and assist.

I really don't think there is much more for me to add to the conversation. It is going around in circles. The way I see it is as follows:

1. need confirmation of commitment for 2019 from coaches
2. attempt to find coaches to replace the ones that are leaving
3. decide on how to approach the new coaches and the teams involved:
      option A - put all available team lists into a pool and allow the new coaches to select their new squads
      option B - give priority picks to new coaches that inherit the teams that need them (coach then determines whether to trade or
      hold)
      option C - existing teams maybe have to cull their lists to a degree and a re-draft can commence for all teams from there
4. start the trading and drafting periods later than usual

Whatever happens, all I know is that the comp needs to decide on what direction it takes quickly. Stalling this decision is not a good idea as it will impact the trading and drafting periods.

I really think there isn't heaps wrong with the comp and it just requires a little bit of TLC and the right coaches to be involved.
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BB67th
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« Reply #5357 on: September 01, 2018, 10:29:19 PM »

Alrighty, here are my thoughts/where I think we are currently at. Sorry I haven't been more active in this thread the past week. It is quite a busy time for me at the moment, and I have been keeping an eye on the thread, but haven't quite had the chance and time to collate my thoughts properly.

Firstly I think the thread has a bit of a tense atmosphere at the moment. I'd encourage everyone to chill out a bit and not take things too seriously. Yes, we do need to have a conversation about where the comp is headed, but it's not the AFL we're a part of here, and any talk of an admin spill is unnecessary, and unhelpful for our discussion; if anyone wants to come on board and help with running aspects of the competition, they are more than welcome to.

I think that either in this thread or by pm I have received an intention of each coach for whether or not they would like to continue on with the competition going forward. We definitely have enough interest to keep the competition going. One I am not sure on is tbag - does anyone know if he will be returning to the forums at some stage soon?
I have had 9 coaches give a definite yes that they want to continue with the competition. The other teams are as follows:

Vacant Coaching Position
- Hong Kong Dongs
- Kathmandu Eskimos
- KL Crocodiles
- Taiwan Dolphins
- Turkey Gazelles

Before we go any further, I'd like to thank the coaches for these clubs for their contributions to the competition over the seasons they have been with us. Sorry to see you all go, but definitely understandable.

We also have the following 2 teams where I am unsure if the coach will be continuing with the comp at this stage
- Laos Elephants
- Tibetan Llamas


So with a core group of 9 coaches that are still committed, I think we will definitely have some form of competition running next year. The question is what form that should take.
Personally I feel it is worth seeing if there are any FF members that would like to come on board and join the comp first. I also think we should bin the suggestion of a coach being in charge of more than one team. At the very least, there is a perceived conflict of interest in that situation.

For now, I will be creating a thread to ask for expressions of interest for coaches to join the AXV. In the mean time, I would like suggestions on what coaches who want to be a part of the competition going forward would like to see. To help steer the conversation in the right direction, I've put together a little template below of a few questions I would appreciate answered.


Do we need action to address the evenness of the competition? - E.g. redraft, dissolve some teams, points cap

If we are unable to find enough coaches to stay at 16 teams, how should we divide up the players from those teams across the remaining teams?

What process would you like to see for trade approvals?

Are you happy with the AXV scoring format? Is there another you would prefer to see?

Finally, what else would you like to see change with the AXV? What would make you more likely to post on the boards each week during the season, and be more active during the offseason?


I'll also add that now as we are using UF to collate our scores, I am happy for our team submission format to be relaxed and for coaches not be required to use our current team submission template. I know this has been an aspect of the comp a number of coaches have wanted changed for a while, so hopefully that is at least a small concession!

Finally, I want to say that running and participating in this comp should all be about having a bit of fun with other people who like to take their fantasy football a bit more seriously than regular SC or DT. It's all about us enjoying the game, so please let us know what would make it more enjoyable for you, with any specific suggestions you have.
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Hawka
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It's Toff's Boyyy

« Reply #5358 on: September 02, 2018, 06:28:16 PM »

Alrighty, here are my thoughts/where I think we are currently at. Sorry I haven't been more active in this thread the past week. It is quite a busy time for me at the moment, and I have been keeping an eye on the thread, but haven't quite had the chance and time to collate my thoughts properly.

Firstly I think the thread has a bit of a tense atmosphere at the moment. I'd encourage everyone to chill out a bit and not take things too seriously. Yes, we do need to have a conversation about where the comp is headed, but it's not the AFL we're a part of here, and any talk of an admin spill is unnecessary, and unhelpful for our discussion; if anyone wants to come on board and help with running aspects of the competition, they are more than welcome to.

I think that either in this thread or by pm I have received an intention of each coach for whether or not they would like to continue on with the competition going forward. We definitely have enough interest to keep the competition going. One I am not sure on is tbag - does anyone know if he will be returning to the forums at some stage soon?
I have had 9 coaches give a definite yes that they want to continue with the competition. The other teams are as follows:

Vacant Coaching Position
- Hong Kong Dongs
- Kathmandu Eskimos
- KL Crocodiles
- Taiwan Dolphins
- Turkey Gazelles

Before we go any further, I'd like to thank the coaches for these clubs for their contributions to the competition over the seasons they have been with us. Sorry to see you all go, but definitely understandable.

We also have the following 2 teams where I am unsure if the coach will be continuing with the comp at this stage
- Laos Elephants
- Tibetan Llamas


So with a core group of 9 coaches that are still committed, I think we will definitely have some form of competition running next year. The question is what form that should take.
Personally I feel it is worth seeing if there are any FF members that would like to come on board and join the comp first. I also think we should bin the suggestion of a coach being in charge of more than one team. At the very least, there is a perceived conflict of interest in that situation.

For now, I will be creating a thread to ask for expressions of interest for coaches to join the AXV. In the mean time, I would like suggestions on what coaches who want to be a part of the competition going forward would like to see. To help steer the conversation in the right direction, I've put together a little template below of a few questions I would appreciate answered.


Do we need action to address the evenness of the competition? - E.g. redraft, dissolve some teams, points cap

If we are unable to find enough coaches to stay at 16 teams, how should we divide up the players from those teams across the remaining teams?

What process would you like to see for trade approvals?

Are you happy with the AXV scoring format? Is there another you would prefer to see?

Finally, what else would you like to see change with the AXV? What would make you more likely to post on the boards each week during the season, and be more active during the offseason?


I'll also add that now as we are using UF to collate our scores, I am happy for our team submission format to be relaxed and for coaches not be required to use our current team submission template. I know this has been an aspect of the comp a number of coaches have wanted changed for a while, so hopefully that is at least a small concession!

Finally, I want to say that running and participating in this comp should all be about having a bit of fun with other people who like to take their fantasy football a bit more seriously than regular SC or DT. It's all about us enjoying the game, so please let us know what would make it more enjoyable for you, with any specific suggestions you have.
Im happy to keep going if we can get it sorted
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Rids
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Bootstudder
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« Reply #5359 on: September 02, 2018, 08:32:55 PM »

Just adding my answers here.

Do we need action to address the evenness of the competition? - E.g. redraft, dissolve some teams, points cap
People will say because I am co-coach of one of the top teams that I am biased no matter what I say to this. But the fact is that I took over a team in Grope Lane (BXV) a few years back which was also a basket case and took on the challenge of doing a proper rebuild. While it doesn't often happen straight away, it can be done within a few good preseasons of trading and drafting. I hate the idea of a points cap and also doing a full re-draft. Nostra and I drafted very young when AXV was started and we are only just seeing the Crabs become an ok team. There hasn't been domination at all this season by any team and the top 8 was actually very competitive overall.

If we are unable to find enough coaches to stay at 16 teams, how should we divide up the players from those teams across the remaining teams?
My suggestion here is that if we find say 4 new coaches, then all the players from the teams go into a pool and the new coaches draft their teams from that pool.

What process would you like to see for trade approvals?
The trade approval process just needs better clarification imo. Trying to value a young player's worth is often subjective and objective and can change between admins. Last year I remember Nas and I had totally opposite opinions of the value of Aaron Francis, a former top 10 drafted player who took a couple of years to get his head in the right space for senior AFL. By having a few guidelines it might actually make it easier for the admin to rule on trades more evenly.

Are you happy with the AXV scoring format? Is there another you would prefer to see?
I really like the scoring format and the fact it is different from the other comps. Having said that, I wouldn't be against adding to it to help make the defenders a little relevant.

Finally, what else would you like to see change with the AXV? What would make you more likely to post on the boards each week during the season, and be more active during the offseason?
I personally think that during the off-season the activity levels are decent. It is more the in season where it disappears and that is probably due to the fact that UF has the updated scores rather than people coming on fanfooty and doing their own calculations. I have seen a weekly preview of the match-ups generate discussion in other comps. Even a few more in season comps eg: Eliminator might work. I don't think it would be a bad thing to try different things every now and then time permitting.
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Football Factory
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Veteran Coach
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« Reply #5360 on: September 03, 2018, 09:29:26 AM »


Do we need action to address the evenness of the competition? - E.g. redraft, dissolve some teams, points cap

No, if there needs to be more priority picks to help the struggling teams then let's do it. There will never be a comp where all the teams are even.

If we are unable to find enough coaches to stay at 16 teams, how should we divide up the players from those teams across the remaining teams?

Put the remaining players into a draft. The lower ranked teams get the higher picks obviously.

What process would you like to see for trade approvals?

I thought it worked okay. People will always disagree because we see players differently.

Are you happy with the AXV scoring format? Is there another you would prefer to see?

I think there has been some grumbling regarding the scoring system, i think the defenders need another way of scoring.

Finally, what else would you like to see change with the AXV? What would make you more likely to post on the boards each week during the season, and be more active during the offseason?

Maybe just some extra scoring for the defenders and i would like to see the bottom teams get priority picks.

I would like to see coaches post their team properly, just naming players last names and nicknames makes me think they don't give a crap.

Im not sure how you can get people to post more during the season? Eliminator might work aslong as Admin are okay putting in the extra time.

I don't know if there's anything i would want to do apart from the norm (trading/drafting) in the off season as i use that time to regenerate for the next season ahead.
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Rids
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Bootstudder
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« Reply #5361 on: September 05, 2018, 10:05:10 PM »

Sorry to be painful but this comp needs to get rolling again guys.

I am more than happy to assist if required to keep the comp moving.
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SydneyRox
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GOT Pillow Talk

« Reply #5362 on: September 06, 2018, 04:29:17 PM »

Do we need action to address the evenness of the competition? - E.g. redraft, dissolve some teams, points cap

i think the current teams are ok, if it came to a full redraft I would also be ok with that, since that is my fav part of the process!!

If we are unable to find enough coaches to stay at 16 teams, how should we divide up the players from those teams across the remaining teams?

Lets do our best to find the coaches, but otherwise lets just redraft the players into the league teams in a separate draft before the Nat draft.

Not sure what the list numbers are currently, but would prefer if we could do this draft and then delist players rather than the other way around.

What process would you like to see for trade approvals?

I like the process where trades are automatically approved, unless 'X' coaches voice concern, it then gets put to admin, if consensus cant be achieved between those parties, then all coaches vote on the trade and thats the pass/fail moment.
Cant see it getting to that too often.



Are you happy with the AXV scoring format? Is there another you would prefer to see?

Happy with current format, its different enough to make it a unique comp.

Finally, what else would you like to see change with the AXV? What would make you more likely to post on the boards each week during the season, and be more active during the offseason?

I like the idea of an eliminator? depending on list sizes etc we could run a reserves comp, wouldnt have to be too complicated, could be run as a separate league on UF to make the scoring etc less time consuming for the admins.

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SydneyRox
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GOT Pillow Talk

« Reply #5363 on: September 06, 2018, 04:30:12 PM »

just a note as well, I am off on holidays for 10 days, may log on from time to time, but wont be around much for the next two weeks
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BB67th
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« Reply #5364 on: September 10, 2018, 08:06:16 PM »

Well at this stage it looks like there is not a great deal of interest in any additional coaches joining the league next season, with no replies to the EOI thread I created calling for coaches to fill our vacancies.

I know a couple of coaches have mentioned in this thread that they know of some other FF members that may be interested in joining the comp. Please get in touch with these people and let me know if they are interested in joining.

I'll leave it for a couple more days, and at that time we will look at what numbers we have, and make plans for how we will go about splitting up the remaining teams without a coach left.
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upthemaidens
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AF ELXAM TRIPLE CROWN WINNER

« Reply #5365 on: September 10, 2018, 08:23:21 PM »

On FanFooty when the AFL games have live scoring, it shows DT, SC and MB(moneyball).
   I don't know what formula they use, but MB scoring could be an option if we do want to change that side of things.
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SydneyRox
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GOT Pillow Talk

« Reply #5366 on: September 17, 2018, 06:36:36 PM »

wow, its a bit rough, I have been away and it would appear we are in the same state as when I left a week ago?
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BB67th
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« Reply #5367 on: September 18, 2018, 09:35:05 PM »

I have sent out a pm to all our continuing coaches, and will post it here as well.

Hi everyone,

Sorry for taking so long to get things moving here again. It has been a combination of being time poor, and waiting to see if there was any interest from others in joining the comp.

From my calculations we have 10 teams to keep going next year, as listed below. If I have included you and you are not interested in continuing, please let me know so we can try to find others. 10 is a nice enough number to continue with I think.

- Australian Ales
- Bangkok Crabs
- Bangladesh Bears
- Manila Folders
- Kathmandu Eskimos
- Mongolian Lambs
- PNG Head Hunters
- Sri Lanka Strikers
- Vietnam Vipers
- UAE Tigers


In moving to a 10 team competition there are a few main things to decide. Firstly is if we change the number of players we name each week. Personally I would prefer to keep it at 15, but this could potentially change.

Second is how we split up the remaining teams. The easiest way will be to throw them all into a big draft pool. Draft order could be done based on this year's ladder position, or a lottery.

We could also look at completely redrafting all teams, if coaches are open to that, but personally I would prefer to keep the bulk of our teams as they are.

For now, I am going to ask coaches to vote on the below to get the ball rolling so we can keep moving forward with the comp. I would also like you to reply to me with any rule changes you would like voted on for next season (and also feel free to post these on the board), and at the end of the week I will send out further rule changes to vote on. Hopefully at this time we can look at starting our drafts as well.


QUESTIONS TO VOTE ON:

#1 - Should we increase our number of players on field? - Last year there were 240 players on field each week
Field breakdowns for increasing numbers are suggested - There would be a further vote to confirm these if we decide to increase number of players on field
A - No, stay at 15 - 150 players on field each week
B - Yes, increase to 18 (5,5,1,5,2) - 180 players on field each week
C - Yes, increase to 20 (5,6,1,5,3) - 200 players on field each week
D - Yes, increase to 22 (5,6,2,5,4) - 220 players on field each week


#2 - How will we divide team lists?
A - Draft with player pool comprising teams without a coach
B - Draft with entire player pool, effectively resetting all lists
C - Other system (Might be something better I haven't thought of, please specify)


#3 - If we proceed with a draft, how should pick order be determined?
A - Random lottery, repeating order
B - Random lottery, snaking order
C - Reverse ladder order, repeating order
D - Reverse ladder order, repeating order
E - Other

Cheers all
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Nige
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« Reply #5368 on: September 18, 2018, 10:01:15 PM »

Hello, I am still interested in continuing, which may seem contrary to the way a lot my recent posts around here have read.

To clarify, I was simply engaging in robust discussion with the few coaches that actually took time to do the same because I thought it was healthy for the comp to have someone bringing up devil's advocate like scenarios and calling people out on what were quite frankly some very odd suggestions and statements.

So yeah, Laos Elephants can be added to the list above, whether that means another team drops out, or another coach is talked into staying (or a coach is found to replace them, therefore granting the ability to have 12 teams).



1 - The whole point of these comps is the XV. That's 15. Don't change the traditional format just because there are fewer teams. I don't think there's any debate needed on that. If coaches in this comp want anything else, they're in the wrong comp.



2 - Losing 4 or 6 teams in this competition is a big deal, especially when you consider the calibre of teams being culled. There are some huge names available as a result of departures and while it means the draft pool is strong, there's a clear issue here in that there are still some strong teams already and the rich will get richer. Simply as an example, Bangkok already has genuine A-graders that would start for literally every other team not even in their XV and a few not even in the 18 they name. The depth of the pool means they'd probably add to their depth with even more quality.

It's obviously hard for some coaches to part with their teams and lists that they've built and grown fond of, but this is a chance for this competition to truly reset and become something other than a joke. It may not get back to it's glory days, but it will at least give it some life and make things a bit more interesting, plus just about everyone loves a draft and it's good challenge to sort out the men from the boys. I implore every single coach to seriously consider what is best for the competition, and not just think along selfish lines.



3 - If the complete redraft is chosen, which I think it should be as the clear best option for this competition to move forward, then the draft order has to be randomised, and it has to snake. That's as fair as fair can be.



Also as an aside, while we do use the original Sportsbet scoring system (through UF), we really do need to make defenders at least a little more relevant. Forwards have their way of being more relevant, so why can't defenders? There's such a dramatic gap between the best defenders and the others that something really must be done. This would have to be decided prior to any drafting as well, as I'm sure it would influence drafting strategies one way or another.
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BB67th
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« Reply #5369 on: September 19, 2018, 12:52:17 PM »

Good to see you're still keen in sticking around Nige, that brings us up to 11 teams committed for next year. Really we do need an even number of teams going forward, as an odd number makes fixturing and the like a nightmare. I'll do a bit of active work to see if we can secure a 12th coach.

Thank you to those coaches that have also responded to me in quick time, shows that we still have a decent amount of activity left in this comp!

I should mention that in the message I sent out to all coaches, option D for #3 should have read 'Reverse ladder order, snaking draft'.

Since a few coaches have brought up the subject, it's also worth bringing up that we currently have a priority pick rule that reads as follows:
"Teams finishing with 4 wins or fewer (16 premiership points or fewer) in a single season, will receive an additional draft pick following the first round of the national draft. If this occurs two seasons in a row, a team will achieve an additional draft pick prior to the first round of the national draft. (This rule will be effective starting with the 2016 Season)."

This would mean that for this year's national drafts, Hong Kong would be in line for picks 1 & 3 after finishing with 4 wins or fewer for the last 2 seasons. Mongolia would have an additional pick at the end of the first round, after having less than 4 wins this season. Once we decide what drafting we are going to do, we will have an additional vote to see what priority picks are given out for our drafts.

I'll also add that with just over half of our coaches having voted on the above questions, it is just about dead even on whether we are looking at a full redraft or just splitting up the teams that leave the competition. Your vote definitely counts!
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