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Author Topic: Lance Armstrong to be stripped of his 7 TDF titles  (Read 4829 times)
colmullet
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2012, 04:00:40 PM »

yeah exactly, its just going to be a recurring theme forever unless there comes a time where the testing of drugs jumps ahead of the drug takers (which probably won't ever happen) to wipe out drug cheating once and for all.
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Grazz
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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2012, 04:09:11 PM »

Yeh amen to that mate. Sadly your right, drugs will always have the lead in the race to stamp out drugs.
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Torpedo10
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2012, 06:37:52 PM »

I never thought Armstrong was on drugs but then again, How can you win 6 TDF's in a row? I see it is impossible for a non-drugs competition sadly.  :(
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Mr.Craig
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2012, 07:00:33 PM »

To be honest I don't really care about him. What angers me is that there's a cancer centre here in Adelaide that is now laying dormant due to its ties with Livestrong and I was told yesterday it may never be used.



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RiOtChEsS
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2012, 08:05:30 PM »

To be honest I don't really care about him. What angers me is that there's a cancer centre here in Adelaide that is now laying dormant due to its ties with Livestrong and I was told yesterday it may never be used.


this sort of thing is not what u want to see, u cant build a house without a solid foundation, or it falls down...

as far as the doping goes, was he the one that introduced it to cycling? probably not, there was a culture of doping their before him and after, i guess the point im trying to make is if everyone was doping and he was the best, if nobody was doping he would have been the best, so really the issue lies with the culture and poor testing, im in no way absolving him nor sticking up for him i just think its a case of a sport rotten at the core, this has already damaged cycling to the fullest extent, sponsors jumping off credibility shredded, Major League Baseball was damaged awfully by the stars i previously stated and the record books r a mess bcos of it...
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Torpedo10
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2012, 08:11:16 PM »

To be honest I don't really care about him. What angers me is that there's a cancer centre here in Adelaide that is now laying dormant due to its ties with Livestrong and I was told yesterday it may never be used.


this sort of thing is not what u want to see, u cant build a house without a solid foundation, or it falls down...

as far as the doping goes, was he the one that introduced it to cycling? probably not, there was a culture of doping their before him and after, i guess the point im trying to make is if everyone was doping and he was the best, if nobody was doping he would have been the best, so really the issue lies with the culture and poor testing, im in no way absolving him nor sticking up for him i just think its a case of a sport rotten at the core, this has already damaged cycling to the fullest extent, sponsors jumping off credibility shredded, Major League Baseball was damaged awfully by the stars i previously stated and the record books r a mess bcos of it...
Marcz, The whole point of drugs were he couldn't be the best if he hadn't taken them. Probably would've been lucky to get 3 TDF's without drugs, but still would have whatever he got today and would have a good name without drugs.
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RiOtChEsS
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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2012, 08:15:36 PM »

To be honest I don't really care about him. What angers me is that there's a cancer centre here in Adelaide that is now laying dormant due to its ties with Livestrong and I was told yesterday it may never be used.


this sort of thing is not what u want to see, u cant build a house without a solid foundation, or it falls down...

as far as the doping goes, was he the one that introduced it to cycling? probably not, there was a culture of doping their before him and after, i guess the point im trying to make is if everyone was doping and he was the best, if nobody was doping he would have been the best, so really the issue lies with the culture and poor testing, im in no way absolving him nor sticking up for him i just think its a case of a sport rotten at the core, this has already damaged cycling to the fullest extent, sponsors jumping off credibility shredded, Major League Baseball was damaged awfully by the stars i previously stated and the record books r a mess bcos of it...
Marcz, The whole point of drugs were he couldn't be the best if he hadn't taken them. Probably would've been lucky to get 3 TDF's without drugs, but still would have whatever he got today and would have a good name without drugs.
actually that book his mate wrote entails that everyone is doing it, "cheat or be cheated" i believe the term was...
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Torpedo10
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« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2012, 08:28:31 PM »

To be honest I don't really care about him. What angers me is that there's a cancer centre here in Adelaide that is now laying dormant due to its ties with Livestrong and I was told yesterday it may never be used.


this sort of thing is not what u want to see, u cant build a house without a solid foundation, or it falls down...

as far as the doping goes, was he the one that introduced it to cycling? probably not, there was a culture of doping their before him and after, i guess the point im trying to make is if everyone was doping and he was the best, if nobody was doping he would have been the best, so really the issue lies with the culture and poor testing, im in no way absolving him nor sticking up for him i just think its a case of a sport rotten at the core, this has already damaged cycling to the fullest extent, sponsors jumping off credibility shredded, Major League Baseball was damaged awfully by the stars i previously stated and the record books r a mess bcos of it...
Marcz, The whole point of drugs were he couldn't be the best if he hadn't taken them. Probably would've been lucky to get 3 TDF's without drugs, but still would have whatever he got today and would have a good name without drugs.
actually that book his mate wrote entails that everyone is doing it, "cheat or be cheated" i believe the term was...
Everyone in his team maybe. Drugs may have taken different effects on different people's bodies.  Thing is that he is the one who suffers, DON'T TAKE DRUGS and you won't be there in the first place. I would rather win no TDF's and not have the feeling for the rest of my life that I cheated so many wins & then lost them rather than win & have to deal with the pain for the rest of my life.
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Mailman the 2nd
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2012, 08:57:19 PM »

Marcz has a pretty fair point with the, "cheat or be cheated"

Cycling is basically at that point right now.

You're either a Contador/Armstrong, who gets glory far beyond others.

Or you're a Cadel Evans, you work-rate is unquestioned but in the end you'll still get cheated on the day.

That's the reality that pro cyclists face. Potentially you could otherwise face not having a career at all. There's a lot of money up for grabs if you can perform and hence there is a great pressure point on whether to cheat or not.

I still respect Armstrong for his charity work and I guess I still see him as a battler regardless of whether he cheated
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Torpedo10
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2012, 09:01:51 PM »

Marcz has a pretty fair point with the, "cheat or be cheated"

Cycling is basically at that point right now.

You're either a Contador/Armstrong, who gets glory far beyond others.

Or you're a Cadel Evans, you work-rate is unquestioned but in the end you'll still get cheated on the day.

That's the reality that pro cyclists face. Potentially you could otherwise face not having a career at all. There's a lot of money up for grabs if you can perform and hence there is a great pressure point on whether to cheat or not.

I still respect Armstrong for his charity work and I guess I still see him as a battler regardless of whether he cheated
Yeah MM, BUT......He loses his titles & his name is in tatters. Cadel is a fighter, He went the easy way....Cadel could still win another TDF.

But in the end:

Lance's TDFs: 0
Cadel's TDFs: 1 & counting.
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Mailman the 2nd
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« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2012, 09:09:36 PM »

Marcz has a pretty fair point with the, "cheat or be cheated"

Cycling is basically at that point right now.

You're either a Contador/Armstrong, who gets glory far beyond others.

Or you're a Cadel Evans, you work-rate is unquestioned but in the end you'll still get cheated on the day.

That's the reality that pro cyclists face. Potentially you could otherwise face not having a career at all. There's a lot of money up for grabs if you can perform and hence there is a great pressure point on whether to cheat or not.

I still respect Armstrong for his charity work and I guess I still see him as a battler regardless of whether he cheated
Yeah MM, BUT......He loses his titles & his name is in tatters. Cadel is a fighter, He went the easy way....Cadel could still win another TDF.

But in the end:

Lance's TDFs: 0
Cadel's TDFs: 1 & counting.

True, but it took the Cycling association a huge amount of time to actually catch Armstrong.

That involved over 20 court cases.

How many other players have retired without being caught?

Who's to say Miguel Indurain or Bernard Hinault or Greg LeMond are as clean as we believed? (they are probably fine btw)
 
They have glory, fame, money.

That's what's on offer

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Torpedo10
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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2012, 09:21:45 PM »

Marcz has a pretty fair point with the, "cheat or be cheated"

Cycling is basically at that point right now.

You're either a Contador/Armstrong, who gets glory far beyond others.

Or you're a Cadel Evans, you work-rate is unquestioned but in the end you'll still get cheated on the day.

That's the reality that pro cyclists face. Potentially you could otherwise face not having a career at all. There's a lot of money up for grabs if you can perform and hence there is a great pressure point on whether to cheat or not.

I still respect Armstrong for his charity work and I guess I still see him as a battler regardless of whether he cheated
Yeah MM, BUT......He loses his titles & his name is in tatters. Cadel is a fighter, He went the easy way....Cadel could still win another TDF.

But in the end:

Lance's TDFs: 0
Cadel's TDFs: 1 & counting.

True, but it took the Cycling association a huge amount of time to actually catch Armstrong.

That involved over 20 court cases.

How many other players have retired without being caught?

Who's to say Miguel Indurain or Bernard Hinault or Greg LeMond are as clean as we believed? (they are probably fine btw)
 
They have glory, fame, money.

That's what's on offer
If they were on drugs, I'm sure they have lots of sleepless nights thinking about it. I would rather not win TDF or any titles so many times & have knowledge that you were FAIR when competing.
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RiOtChEsS
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« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2012, 09:22:28 PM »

Thanks for seeing my POV MM2, like i said when it comes to some ppl we r righteous in our beliefs as u r Torps, im right there with u mate its not for me, i wont be defined by my achievements, more for what i stand for, for my actions that stem from those beliefs, those that arent could easily be tempted by the carrot, the everyone is doing it, this is the norm... never ever go against ur own moral values ppl no matter what the prize, no eternal reward will emancipate ur conscience from the guilt!

When it boils down Lance was weak, for whatever reason he did the doping bcos he A didnt have a problem with it or B he wasnt listening to his inner self, his plumb line.

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Torpedo10
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« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2012, 09:40:44 PM »

Thanks for seeing my POV MM2, like i said when it comes to some ppl we r righteous in our beliefs as u r Torps, im right there with u mate its not for me, i wont be defined by my achievements, more for what i stand for, for my actions that stem from those beliefs, those that arent could easily be tempted by the carrot, the everyone is doing it, this is the norm... never ever go against ur own moral values ppl no matter what the prize, no eternal reward will emancipate ur conscience from the guilt!

When it boils down Lance was weak, for whatever reason he did the doping bcos he A didnt have a problem with it or B he wasnt listening to his inner self, his plumb line.
Yeah mate, all about your values in life. For me it would be better to go to bed at night thinking I don't care the result as long as I'm  fair than ' The drugs I just took should win me tomorrow's race'. I would feel worse knowing I've won 7 TDF's but taken drugs to win them than not winning anything at all and not taking drugs. Cycling may be a 'team' sport in some ways but you race, you win races, you lose races, you take the blame if you take drugs and you lose the titles you win if you take drugs to win them.
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Torpedo10
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« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2012, 09:44:48 PM »

Marcz has a pretty fair point with the, "cheat or be cheated"

Cycling is basically at that point right now.

You're either a Contador/Armstrong, who gets glory far beyond others.

Or you're a Cadel Evans, you work-rate is unquestioned but in the end you'll still get cheated on the day.

That's the reality that pro cyclists face. Potentially you could otherwise face not having a career at all. There's a lot of money up for grabs if you can perform and hence there is a great pressure point on whether to cheat or not.

I still respect Armstrong for his charity work and I guess I still see him as a battler regardless of whether he cheated
Yeah MM, BUT......He loses his titles & his name is in tatters. Cadel is a fighter, He went the easy way....Cadel could still win another TDF.

But in the end:

Lance's TDFs: 0
Cadel's TDFs: 1 & counting.

True, but it took the Cycling association a huge amount of time to actually catch Armstrong.

That involved over 20 court cases.

How many other players have retired without being caught?

Who's to say Miguel Indurain or Bernard Hinault or Greg LeMond are as clean as we believed? (they are probably fine btw)
 
They have glory, fame, money.

That's what's on offer
Indurain had physical advantages from when he was quite young I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indurain

Lung capacity was 7.8 litres compared to most people's 6 litres.  :o
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