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Author Topic: Top 10 Greatest NBA Players of all-time  (Read 10821 times)
Jay
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« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2014, 08:31:10 PM »

Well looking at those it proves that Kobe should have at least 1 more MVP.. His prime stats > Nash and Dirk's

So I'm a hater for having Lebron at #8 of all-time? Lol? I know how flowering good Lebron is... I also know that he is definitely not on track to passing MJ ::)

Its not all about "raw stats", winning intangibles should play a huge part... Do you have his "raw stats" for his playoff record in Cleveland when he came up smaller than Mini Me vs. Boston on a number of occassions? How about the 2011 finals, raw stats werent so great then... 8 points in a full game, are you kidding me? Even last years finals he makes crucial turnovers down the stretch of game 6 then misses the game-tying three, luckily Ray Allen saved his ass. Been the luckiest 2 rings of all-time imo.

He may never get another ring, who knows?! Give me MJ's 6/6 Finals record any day.
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« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2014, 08:45:02 PM »

He threw that one game vs Boston, yes that is a big problem. But people forget how he smashed so many teams in the playoffs.

Im not saying your a hater for having him @ 8. I'm saying people are haters because they think he couldnt do it when others were in their primes. Don't understand how they are the luckiest rings of all time. They were the best team in the 3 finals series. They played like shower in vs Dallas, which they should've won, they beat Spurs and OKC. Teams they are better than.

 The thing is, Cleveland were the worst team in the NBA, with LeBron, they were top 2. You can't say that about any other team/player in the history of the game. There is only so much you can do as a SF when you are the only above average player, let a lone elite player on the team.
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Jay
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« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2014, 09:35:01 PM »

Games 5 and 6 vs. Boston were laughable from Lebron. Every time there was an important posession, he flowered up big time. Still remember that cross-court pass to Parker lol. I dont think he "threw" any of those games though, he couldn't have beaten us even at his best. Even if he did 'throw' those games to get out of Cleveland, thats not the mentality I want from my GOAT...

Do I need to go over it again? Game 2 ECF 2012 late in the game Wade HACKS Rondo, no-call! Goes into OT and we lose, if we win that game, we win the series. Lebron doesnt get his 1st ring.

Game 6 of 2013 finals was the most obviously rigged game since the Kings vs Lakers saga. The Ray Allen foul on Manu was ridiculous! Bosh on Green was questionable too...

He won nothing in Cleveland...
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Andrew3737
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« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2014, 09:58:09 PM »

If this, if that. Ifs and buts can also work the other way.

Like I said, I doubt other historic elite players could even reach the finals, let alone win a championship with that pathetic cavs side.
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Jay
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« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2014, 10:02:14 PM »

If this, if that. Ifs and buts can also work the other way.

Like I said, I doubt other historic elite players could even reach the finals, let alone win a championship with that pathetic cavs side.
MJ would've performed better than LeBron did with the exact same team in that era...
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« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2014, 10:22:41 PM »

I doubt it, obv can't prove it either way, but I don't think anyone could've done a better job than LBJ on that Cleveland team. ONly thing we can look at is how the players performed at the same age. Which can give us an idea, but no defininite answer, since its all hypothetical and too many variances and other controllers that go into it.

As MJ didn't play too many games @22, we can take both ages 21 and 23 and see how it compares to LBJ's 06-07 when he made it to the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1985&p2=jamesle01&y2=2007

This is Jordan's first season, which just shows how goaty he is. It's close but LBJ wins in everything but PER.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1987&p2=jamesle01&y2=2007

Age 23 is where Jordan starts to WIM. He smashes everything, which is I think one of the greatest single seasons.

Also, just like to post this

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=jordami01&y1=1993&p2=jamesle01&y2=2014

LBJ vs Jordan up to the same age. Its close, with MJ leading obv, but to note, MJ had 2 rings (3rd being this year), 3 MVP's, 2 Finals MVP. LBJ has 2 rings, 4 MVP's and 2 Final's MVP. So with silverware close, stats close LBJ isn't that far behind MJ. However, LBJ is in a situation where he needs to deliver, which is where the doubt comes in, something that no one would ever do to MJ.
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Jay
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« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2014, 10:46:42 PM »

There's no way at all that I can say for sure but I really believe MJ could've won an NBA finals game with that Cleveland team, something LeBron never managed to do.

Not quite sure what you're trying to prove... MJ clearly beats him stats wise? PER and WS/48 being the most important, MJ wins both of them in regular season + playoffs ???

The question is can Lebron now replicate what MJ did in his very late 20s/early 30s... I doubt he can. I think he gets 1, maybe 2 more rings :o
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« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2014, 10:49:37 PM »

There's no way at all that I can say for sure but I really believe MJ could've won an NBA finals game with that Cleveland team, something LeBron never managed to do.

Not quite sure what you're trying to prove... MJ clearly beats him stats wise? PER and WS/48 being the most important, MJ wins both of them in regular season + playoffs ???

The question is can Lebron now replicate what MJ did in his very late 20s/early 30s... I doubt he can. I think he gets 1, maybe 2 more rings :o

I wasnt trying to prove either way, I just said lets take a look at the stats. Stats wise, he is on just below and championships and awards wiise he is 1 MVP infront and everything is tied. So its going to an interesting next 2 years for lebron.
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Jay
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« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2014, 10:58:32 PM »

The fact that the silverware aspect is still extremely close is credit to MJ... Lebron should be at least a couple of MVPs + rings ahead of MJ when you consider the talent level of the guys MJ was up against compared to Lebron
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« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2014, 11:09:06 PM »

This may be true, but guys like Kareem early on and Duncan later on didn't exactly have all time greats either. So if we bag out LBJ for having it done light, we gotta do it to some other all time elite players too. We are seeing something great with KD and LBJ though.
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Jay
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« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2014, 11:04:11 AM »

This may be true, but guys like Kareem early on and Duncan later on didn't exactly have all time greats either. So if we bag out LBJ for having it done light, we gotta do it to some other all time elite players too. We are seeing something great with KD and LBJ though.
You got the bad boy Pistons, Magic's Lakers, Ewing's Knicks, Shaq's Magic, Barkley's Suns, Stockton + Malone, Kemp + The Glove... Was just a phenominal era and for MJ to dominate it like he did is pretty amazing.

The KD/Lebron thing is interesting... Did MJ even have talks of him not being the best player in the world during his prime?

I think Durant is catching LBJ... And fast...
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« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2014, 11:15:35 AM »

Difference between LBJ fan boys and Kobe fans is that Kobe fans respect what James is/does, while LBJ fans downright dis-credit whatever Kobe has achieved, IMO.

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valkorum
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« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2014, 12:05:17 PM »

Difference between LBJ fan boys and Kobe fans is that Kobe fans respect what James is/does, while LBJ fans downright dis-credit whatever Kobe has achieved, IMO.

And then there is me, who can't stand either Kobe or LBJ but do appreciate that they are good players.  Kobe is better than LBJ if you compare careers to date (which is what we are doing)
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« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2014, 12:10:35 PM »

I am surprised none of these names appearing yet...Marques Haynes, Meadowlark Lemon, Jerome James, Reece "Goose" Tatum.
Their team had a great winning %..must count for something... ;D
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« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2014, 03:42:23 PM »

I never stated that LBJ is better than MJ. (Anything is possible).

But saying Kobe is better than LeBron is ridiculous...
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