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Author Topic: Johann Wagner  (Read 1227 times)
MC
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« on: September 17, 2014, 10:21:47 PM »

Winner of The Recruit chooses Port as his new home.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-17/port-snares-reality-tv-winner


What do you think his chances are of getting a senior game? Quick forward-mid, will probably struggle with Gray and Wingard in the team?
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kilbluff1985
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 10:23:41 PM »

I think he could push out Neade
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Capper
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CAPPERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 10:24:09 PM »

#Spoiler
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MC
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 10:26:02 PM »

#Spoiler

Lol sorry, but it's all over the AFL website anyway.
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Ricochet
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 11:05:46 PM »

Will be very very interesting to see how he goes up with the big boys. Hopefully he does well so the show is a success
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 11:56:18 PM »

#Spoiler

Lol sorry, but it's all over the AFL website anyway.
All good, got home from work at 10pm so will DL it later and watch it

Well done to Johann, i think Mores may go somewhere though
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powersuperkents
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2014, 03:25:02 PM »

The kid made the most imprudent decision I've ever seen. How long is his initial contract... because that's how long he'll be in Port Adelaide for. This is a joke, as I supporter I don't want to see a reality tv show winner in our side. If you can't make it into either 3 drafts.. you shouldn't be in the AFL.

He could have got a game at GCS, Sheeds offered him to mentor/pupil relationship. Instead he choose a side with the 2nd best (and one of the youngest) forward lines in the comp. He won't get a game, I don't think he'll be promoted above the rookie list. I'm not a big fan of Moore, however, he made the draft and was pick no. 9. I have no doubts that he could run circles around Wagner based on that alone. It's a reality tv series.. the contestants barely achieve anything (no matter what context) post-series
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 03:26:37 PM by powersuperkents » Logged
powersuperkents
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2014, 03:27:51 PM »

Furthermore, I like Kochie. But I think he just wanted more publicity tbh
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2014, 11:01:01 AM »

You may call it an imprudent decision but I can see why he chose Port Adelaide being in his home state and the fact he knows it will be harder to get a game at PA but he'll have to earn his stripes - you'll get the best out of him as a player.

"The direction they're going in, the game-style they play, where I can fit in."

Wagner acknowledged he possibly could have been granted earlier senior opportunities had he chosen the Suns or Giants over the current preliminary finalists. 
But having worked closely with Power high performance manager Darren Burgess, who was conditioning coach on the show, Wagner believed he would be best off at Alberton.

"I thought, 'Where am I going to get the best out of my footy?'," he said.

I also disagree with your statement regarding the fact that if you don't make it in any of the three drafts you shouldn't be in the AFL - that's a ridiculous comment.

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Ziplock
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2014, 12:16:56 PM »

You may call it an imprudent decision but I can see why he chose Port Adelaide being in his home state and the fact he knows it will be harder to get a game at PA but he'll have to earn his stripes - you'll get the best out of him as a player.

"The direction they're going in, the game-style they play, where I can fit in."

Wagner acknowledged he possibly could have been granted earlier senior opportunities had he chosen the Suns or Giants over the current preliminary finalists. 
But having worked closely with Power high performance manager Darren Burgess, who was conditioning coach on the show, Wagner believed he would be best off at Alberton.

"I thought, 'Where am I going to get the best out of my footy?'," he said.

I also disagree with your statement regarding the fact that if you don't make it in any of the three drafts you shouldn't be in the AFL - that's a ridiculous comment.


The AFL draft system leaves a large chunk to luck- it's because of guys who were over looked in multiple drafts like Barlow, Zorko, that they held this competition.
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powersuperkents
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2014, 09:46:31 PM »

You may call it an imprudent decision but I can see why he chose Port Adelaide being in his home state and the fact he knows it will be harder to get a game at PA but he'll have to earn his stripes - you'll get the best out of him as a player.

"The direction they're going in, the game-style they play, where I can fit in."

Wagner acknowledged he possibly could have been granted earlier senior opportunities had he chosen the Suns or Giants over the current preliminary finalists. 
But having worked closely with Power high performance manager Darren Burgess, who was conditioning coach on the show, Wagner believed he would be best off at Alberton.

"I thought, 'Where am I going to get the best out of my footy?'," he said.

I also disagree with your statement regarding the fact that if you don't make it in any of the three drafts you shouldn't be in the AFL - that's a ridiculous comment.


The AFL draft system leaves a large chunk to luck- it's because of guys who were over looked in multiple drafts like Barlow, Zorko, that they held this competition.
But players like Barlow, Zorko etc. still made it in the rookie draft (it's rare enough as is to find gems in the rookie draft and the fact that no contestants were eligible for the rookie draft delineates flaws in the show - ipso facto if they could make the any draft, they wouldn't have been contestants in the show). Talent shows are made for entertainment, the contestants rarely (those who have an mere exceptions that prove the rule) succeed beyond it (how is challenge such as swimming in a shark tank even remotely relevant to a footballer's ability?). This is particularly the problem with sporting talents shows because in sports... you actually have to be one of the best. If you weren't originally recognised you most likely will never be. The draft is a process to pool potential talent, the recruit is a tv show for entertainment purposes to generate a profit (I honestly think FOX don't care about the outcomes of the contestants, if one happens to succeed however, they benefit because the credibility of the show remains and it can continue production). Football Superstar (3 season, only one winner actually made it and played 3 games in 2 seasons (delisted) and Cricket Superstar (1 season and the winner turned out to be anything but). In terms of talent AFL is a simpler game to play than both Soccer and Cricket (which does provide the show with a moot debating point (e.g. unlike other sports fitness or height alone can get someone drafted and in the starting 22). However I question whether this kid will actually succeed due to the fact around 100 players are drafted each year and he has never even been considered for the draft (as far as I know of).

People tend to get defensive about talent shows (or reality tv) because it's directed in a way that inspires the viewer to believe anything is possible and features ordinary people who we can relate to accomplish what they portray to be extraordinary thing. But history alone dictates that it's rare, in any circumstances, that contestants will go on to achieve additional accomplishments post-series. Ultimately, I'd say he peaked during the finale, it will most likely be downhill for him from that day forward.   

Also, I heard Waylon as originally a highly regarded draft prospect but pulled out due to homesickness a few years ago? Honestly, by that alone he should of really been the winner (with no need for a competition). I also question the methodology the producers would have developed to judge the contestants by. I was told Michael Voss said to one contestant (while discharging him) "I'm sorry but you're just not AFL material", yet no-one had even touched a football at that point in time. That alone shows the show's method of selection was flawed
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2014, 10:55:55 PM »

You may call it an imprudent decision but I can see why he chose Port Adelaide being in his home state and the fact he knows it will be harder to get a game at PA but he'll have to earn his stripes - you'll get the best out of him as a player.

"The direction they're going in, the game-style they play, where I can fit in."

Wagner acknowledged he possibly could have been granted earlier senior opportunities had he chosen the Suns or Giants over the current preliminary finalists. 
But having worked closely with Power high performance manager Darren Burgess, who was conditioning coach on the show, Wagner believed he would be best off at Alberton.

"I thought, 'Where am I going to get the best out of my footy?'," he said.

I also disagree with your statement regarding the fact that if you don't make it in any of the three drafts you shouldn't be in the AFL - that's a ridiculous comment.


The AFL draft system leaves a large chunk to luck- it's because of guys who were over looked in multiple drafts like Barlow, Zorko, that they held this competition.
But players like Barlow, Zorko etc. still made it in the rookie draft (it's rare enough as is to find gems in the rookie draft and the fact that no contestants were eligible for the rookie draft delineates flaws in the show - ipso facto if they could make the any draft, they wouldn't have been contestants in the show). Talent shows are made for entertainment, the contestants rarely (those who have an mere exceptions that prove the rule) succeed beyond it (how is challenge such as swimming in a shark tank even remotely relevant to a footballer's ability?). This is particularly the problem with sporting talents shows because in sports... you actually have to be one of the best. If you weren't originally recognised you most likely will never be. The draft is a process to pool potential talent, the recruit is a tv show for entertainment purposes to generate a profit (I honestly think FOX don't care about the outcomes of the contestants, if one happens to succeed however, they benefit because the credibility of the show remains and it can continue production). Football Superstar (3 season, only one winner actually made it and played 3 games in 2 seasons (delisted) and Cricket Superstar (1 season and the winner turned out to be anything but). In terms of talent AFL is a simpler game to play than both Soccer and Cricket (which does provide the show with a moot debating point (e.g. unlike other sports fitness or height alone can get someone drafted and in the starting 22). However I question whether this kid will actually succeed due to the fact around 100 players are drafted each year and he has never even been considered for the draft (as far as I know of).

People tend to get defensive about talent shows (or reality tv) because it's directed in a way that inspires the viewer to believe anything is possible and features ordinary people who we can relate to accomplish what they portray to be extraordinary thing. But history alone dictates that it's rare, in any circumstances, that contestants will go on to achieve additional accomplishments post-series. Ultimately, I'd say he peaked during the finale, it will most likely be downhill for him from that day forward.   

Also, I heard Waylon as originally a highly regarded draft prospect but pulled out due to homesickness a few years ago? Honestly, by that alone he should of really been the winner (with no need for a competition). I also question the methodology the producers would have developed to judge the contestants by. I was told Michael Voss said to one contestant (while discharging him) "I'm sorry but you're just not AFL material", yet no-one had even touched a football at that point in time. That alone shows the show's method of selection was flawed

Eventually guys like Zorko/ Barlow got in through the rookie draft, but there were years when they were completely AFL draftable and yet overlooked. Same thing with guys like Stephenson- he was 29 when he got drafted, and probably past his peak, yet although being serviceable at AFL level and being one of the best VFL ruckmen for years, he was overlooked in like a dozen draft years. Just because you weren't originally recognised as a good player when you were 17, 18, 19 doesn't mean you're not still a good player- and the recognition of that fact is why the draft age has been going up in the past couple of years.

Obviously it would be better if I had an example of an exemplary WAFL/SANFL/VFL player who could make it with ease at AFL level, but it's a bit hard to do that, since you don't know about them since they haven't had a crack :P


I'm not saying any of these guys will be stars, because they probably won't be... but the fact that clubs have been signing people other than the winner (who they were obliged to accept or something, tbh I don't watch the show :P ), means that they're seeing potential for the contestants at an AFL level.



If you shouldn't be in the AFL if you don't make any of the 3 drafts, should none of the players who started as category B rookies be in the AFL? The AFL has devised systems outside of the draft to allow players in through a variety of ways.

I mean, a lot of your points of reality/ talent shows are completely valid, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who are good enough to make it- and if the recruit gives them that opportunity, then so be it.

As for the non-footballing attributes, some of them are pretty important to AFL. Like, people with recurring off field issues probably aren't suited for AFL, or people who for whatever reason can't be away from their community, who'll end up either leaving their club or getting kicked out.
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powersuperkents
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2014, 11:54:04 PM »

You may call it an imprudent decision but I can see why he chose Port Adelaide being in his home state and the fact he knows it will be harder to get a game at PA but he'll have to earn his stripes - you'll get the best out of him as a player.

"The direction they're going in, the game-style they play, where I can fit in."

Wagner acknowledged he possibly could have been granted earlier senior opportunities had he chosen the Suns or Giants over the current preliminary finalists. 
But having worked closely with Power high performance manager Darren Burgess, who was conditioning coach on the show, Wagner believed he would be best off at Alberton.

"I thought, 'Where am I going to get the best out of my footy?'," he said.

I also disagree with your statement regarding the fact that if you don't make it in any of the three drafts you shouldn't be in the AFL - that's a ridiculous comment.


The AFL draft system leaves a large chunk to luck- it's because of guys who were over looked in multiple drafts like Barlow, Zorko, that they held this competition.
But players like Barlow, Zorko etc. still made it in the rookie draft (it's rare enough as is to find gems in the rookie draft and the fact that no contestants were eligible for the rookie draft delineates flaws in the show - ipso facto if they could make the any draft, they wouldn't have been contestants in the show). Talent shows are made for entertainment, the contestants rarely (those who have an mere exceptions that prove the rule) succeed beyond it (how is challenge such as swimming in a shark tank even remotely relevant to a footballer's ability?). This is particularly the problem with sporting talents shows because in sports... you actually have to be one of the best. If you weren't originally recognised you most likely will never be. The draft is a process to pool potential talent, the recruit is a tv show for entertainment purposes to generate a profit (I honestly think FOX don't care about the outcomes of the contestants, if one happens to succeed however, they benefit because the credibility of the show remains and it can continue production). Football Superstar (3 season, only one winner actually made it and played 3 games in 2 seasons (delisted) and Cricket Superstar (1 season and the winner turned out to be anything but). In terms of talent AFL is a simpler game to play than both Soccer and Cricket (which does provide the show with a moot debating point (e.g. unlike other sports fitness or height alone can get someone drafted and in the starting 22). However I question whether this kid will actually succeed due to the fact around 100 players are drafted each year and he has never even been considered for the draft (as far as I know of).

People tend to get defensive about talent shows (or reality tv) because it's directed in a way that inspires the viewer to believe anything is possible and features ordinary people who we can relate to accomplish what they portray to be extraordinary thing. But history alone dictates that it's rare, in any circumstances, that contestants will go on to achieve additional accomplishments post-series. Ultimately, I'd say he peaked during the finale, it will most likely be downhill for him from that day forward.   

Also, I heard Waylon as originally a highly regarded draft prospect but pulled out due to homesickness a few years ago? Honestly, by that alone he should of really been the winner (with no need for a competition). I also question the methodology the producers would have developed to judge the contestants by. I was told Michael Voss said to one contestant (while discharging him) "I'm sorry but you're just not AFL material", yet no-one had even touched a football at that point in time. That alone shows the show's method of selection was flawed

Eventually guys like Zorko/ Barlow got in through the rookie draft, but there were years when they were completely AFL draftable and yet overlooked. Same thing with guys like Stephenson- he was 29 when he got drafted, and probably past his peak, yet although being serviceable at AFL level and being one of the best VFL ruckmen for years, he was overlooked in like a dozen draft years. Just because you weren't originally recognised as a good player when you were 17, 18, 19 doesn't mean you're not still a good player- and the recognition of that fact is why the draft age has been going up in the past couple of years.

Obviously it would be better if I had an example of an exemplary WAFL/SANFL/VFL player who could make it with ease at AFL level, but it's a bit hard to do that, since you don't know about them since they haven't had a crack :P


I'm not saying any of these guys will be stars, because they probably won't be... but the fact that clubs have been signing people other than the winner (who they were obliged to accept or something, tbh I don't watch the show :P ), means that they're seeing potential for the contestants at an AFL level.



If you shouldn't be in the AFL if you don't make any of the 3 drafts, should none of the players who started as category B rookies be in the AFL? The AFL has devised systems outside of the draft to allow players in through a variety of ways.

I mean, a lot of your points of reality/ talent shows are completely valid, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who are good enough to make it- and if the recruit gives them that opportunity, then so be it.

As for the non-footballing attributes, some of them are pretty important to AFL. Like, people with recurring off field issues probably aren't suited for AFL, or people who for whatever reason can't be away from their community, who'll end up either leaving their club or getting kicked out.
Yeah I agree, I'm stating my opinion because on precedent. However, I'm still open to the possibility that the kid proves me wrong. I think the academies are a really good approach. Tbh I just don't like reality talent shows, I think they don't work and they're a waste of time, I honestly see no difference whether it's Australian Idol or the Recruit. I don't watch the show either but there is one thing that could really prevents me from forming a definitive answer. The recruit (unlike other shows) doesn't encourage the contestants to follow a generic paradigm. I think that this really puts a lot in Wagner's favour as they have focused on developing his own unique skill set. But in the end I really think he chose the wrong team. GCS would have been the most likely to provide him with senior opportunities, GWS would be 2nd most likely. However as a Port supporter I can't see him being selected ahead the likes of Wingard, Schulz, Gray, Monfries, Neade, White, Westhoff, Polec, Mitchell, Butcher (may be a spud but still more proven than Wagner), & Young. Furthermore rookies like Ah Chee, Harvey, Impey & Shaw would probably get the call ahead of him. If Ryder moves to Port (I think he most likely will), it decreases his chances by moore (pun intended as he would be more likely to be selected on the flank).   
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Noz
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 08:20:42 PM »

As long as they don't give him games because he won the show i will be happy.

However if he lines up round 1 purely as a marketing scheme done by the AFL i will be pretty upset, If he earns it fine but don't give him games
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Ziplock
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2014, 10:21:15 PM »

As long as they don't give him games because he won the show i will be happy.

However if he lines up round 1 purely as a marketing scheme done by the AFL i will be pretty upset, If he earns it fine but don't give him games

Give him a crack in nab, if he shows enough, then maybe :P
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